Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:00

Welcome back to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is the show where we connect with leaders and innovators transforming care from the inside out. I'm Dr. Andrew Greenland, and today's episode is a deeply personal and inspiring one. I'm joined by Ros Jabar, also known as Dr. Ros, a former pharmacist who's taken an incredible journey from conventional medicine to building her own lifestyle-driven wellness program. After facing her own health challenges, Ros made a brave and radical shift, leaving behind the traditional path and to develop something truly unique. So with that, um Roz, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr Ros Jabar: 0:33

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me on. Gosh, you've made me sound really cool.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:40

Well, good. As long as I've got it all accurate, that's the most important thing. I don't want to kind of misrepresent you in my introduction.

Dr Ros Jabar: 0:47

Well, I don't know. She sounds really cool. I'd like to be that person. Um, yeah, it's funny, isn't it? You don't realize that you've taken that journey until somebody spells it out like that. But um, yeah, thank you for putting it that way. It's great.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 1:00

No worries. So speaking of the journey, could you perhaps talk us through your journey from pharmacy to emergency care to building Ros Medics? Because it's an interesting um trajectory. Very interested to hear about it.

Dr Ros Jabar: 1:12

Uh well, it's it's it's a it's an odd one because it just happened naturally, organically, I would say. So um uh I was in a pharmacist, I studied pharmacy, I absolutely loved pharmacy. It uh it worked well with my love for chemistry, physiology, pharmacology, the lot. So it was really something I enjoyed to the point where I had my own pharmacy in a lovely little village called Penturch. And um I found that I was slightly more than when I say more than a pharmacist, all of us pharmacists were pretty involved with our patients anyway. Um, but I was always finding a pattern and always finding that maybe what I was doing or giving them that medication wasn't really enough. So I was always sending them back with little little post-it notes. Uh when you go to see your doctor, ask him to check this or ask him to check that. And uh then one day this very handsome doctor walked in and uh uh I said, I'd like to speak to the pharmacist. And um I could tell he I thought, oh gosh, I've either really irritated him or he just needs a bit of advice. And uh I was hoping it was the little bit of advice. Um and he said, Are you um the pharmacist that's been here for such and such time? I said, Yes. He said, Did you see a patient of mine the other day? And I said, Um, oh uh yes. And I was really expecting a tallin off, and he just said, You're wasted. He said, You need to go to medical school and you need to put those skills to the test. And of course, I was a a new mum. I had two little children then. I was uh running a pharmacy for somebody else, and um, how was I going to leave pharmacy and go into medical school at my age? And I was 30 at the time. I thought, okay, how do I do this? Um, I didn't feel confident, so I redid my A-levels, four of them, I might add, um, in a year, um, in the evenings. Um, and I got the required A-levels because I just thought it was best to see if I could actually hack that whole medical thing. Um, and I got rejected everywhere. None of the medical schools wanted to know. Um, I and I can't tell you why, but they didn't want to know. Um, because there's so much competition to become a doctor. I mean, you really do need to be like the best of the best. If you're going to go into medical school, you've got to really show you want to get into medical school. So, anyway, I was discussing my sad story with another pharmacist who said, Oh my goodness, you need to meet this woman, Professor Ruth Davis, who is an advocate for women like you. And um, she met me, she had a conversation with me, and she penned a reference for me to the medical school. Um, and from a rejection, I had a phone call from um University Hospital or Cardiff University saying, could you come in for an interview? And the funny thing was, before that, I was trying to show I was, you know, really interested in medicine and I was going to do all these uh pre-medical training things. And um I went there and I'll never forget there was an ENT surgeon there who was basically gave us these pigs' heads to cut and sew up. And he said, uh he said, Um, oh, you'll never get into medicine. Don't be silly. He said, You're the wrong sex, you're the wrong age, um, you've got children. Uh that basically there was a lot against me, but you know, I was a 30-something year old woman, he could speak to me like that. It wasn't a problem. And um, he said, I just know you won't. And he said, if you ever do, he said, let me know and I'll eat my hat. And lo and behold, I went for the interview and he was interviewing, and I kid you not, no word of a lie. He looked at me and he said, I am completely aware uh of your journey. And he was. He said, I have absolutely no questions whatsoever apart from when. And so I was ready for him. And by the way, I was properly I was prickly when I saw him. I was like, Oh, come on then, I'm ready for this fight. And he said, I just want to know why. And I said, the journey is I it was it's a natural progression from pharmacy for me, and it it sufficed. The um there's two interviewers, and it was a younger um student interviewing me, and she said, Well, how are you going to feel your age? Bear in mind I was 30-something, so as far as I know, no, I'm in my 50s now, so 30-something's young. Uh, she said, How would you feel being around teenagers who were coming into medical school and this, that, and the other? And I didn't consider myself old at all. Uh, and I said, Look, I said, Um, I think they'll learn from me, and I'll just get inspired by them. And well, there wasn't much to say, and I literally, that was done in April, and I was in medical school in September. Um, yeah, and uh my husband walked out on me the second I went into medical school, uh two little ones, and you are then left with how on earth do I do this? Uh, do I give up medicine? And something that I actually realized it was something I've always wanted to do. Um or what? And I thought, no, I'm not gonna give it up. So you you're gonna love this. There was a little parkeeper's hut in a uh park outside the um the uh university, the the museum in a park, beautiful. And um I opened a coffee shop. Yeah, I opened a coffee shop to pay for the fees because I had to pay, I was a postgrad, so I had to pay for my fees, and it was great. I used to go there and I I got somebody in to do the coffees, and I did my own coffees and I did my own bits and pieces, so that paid for it, and then as time went on, I knew the coffee shop was uh it was seasonal, that wasn't going to help me. Um I applied to the uh pharmaceutical uh part of the NHS to get a contract to open a pharmacy in a very small village because I couldn't buy a pharmacy. I mean, you know, divorced little old Ros medical student could not buy a pharmacy, but I could surely run one at the weekends and this, that, and the other. And um, I got the contract, much to the disgust of the local GPs. I got the contract and I opened up a pharmacy, and that sustained me and my little family through my medical school. Uh so that was my story into getting into medical school, and I loved every single moment of medical school. I felt completely at home. I was, I felt completely honored about being in this profession um to be able to do that and have that responsibility for human life. And so, yeah, it was the start of a wonderful journey.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 8:51

Um wow, can I just say that's such a remarkable journey of resilience and persistence and resourcefulness? And one little comment I want to make. I hope that ENT surgeon had a very crunchy hat.

Dr Ros Jabar: 9:03

Uh well, I asked him, I said, would you like salt or pepper? Or would you like both? And um, he's still around. He sees me, he nods at me occasionally, and uh, yeah, it was the funniest thing in the world. I I won't name him, but I can afterwards if you like. But yeah, I won't name him.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 9:20

Okay, of course.

Dr Ros Jabar: 9:21

Um, but yeah, it's good.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 9:24

Um then from there to sorry, carry on the journey, carry on the journey. I'm fascinated.

Dr Ros Jabar: 9:29

Yeah, well, do you know when you're in medical school, you think, yeah, I'm gonna be a cardiologist, yeah, I'm gonna be a surgeon. You know, every every I was one of these, I was like, honestly, um we call it like as a baby on pop, you can honestly fill me with tartrazine and I was bouncing, and I was like that with every subject. If I went into cardiology, I wanted to be a cardiologist. If I went into respiratory, I wanted to be a respiratory surgery. Honestly, I could not tell you how interested I was in medicine. It was absolutely, you know, it blew my mind every time. I just wanted to do everything, but obviously didn't have the capacity. Um, but I settled on um becoming an AE doctor because it was that exciting thing, it was that there was a for me, it was the the drama, but it was also that methodical thinking. What's going on with this person? He can't, he or she can't tell me what's going on, what's going on, let me look at the numbers, let me look at the situation and all of that. And uh I I settled on that. Um and bear in mind now I'm I hit my 40s, so I haven't got the resilience that a 20-something would have. Um, and I'm doing the very long hours as an F1 and F2, um, and I've got two children at home, uh older children. Um, my son would have been 17, and he had severe autism. So for him, it was really difficult to see his mum come in and out of the house at odd times of the day and the night. So it didn't work with him. Balancing that was really difficult. Um and I knew I I I went into a profession then that I thought, ah, that this isn't gonna be family-friendly, it isn't gonna help him. And you know, with autism, the the especially with teenagers, they've got the the brain changes that are happening. He was getting some really retractable um behaviors. Uh so I had to I had to change tact. And the I went, and this is purely, it's not what I planned. Not much of this is planned. In fact, most of my life isn't planned, in all honesty. But I just thought, rah, well, I went to see the director and I said, look, I this is my situation. And um they couldn't help, unfortunately. Uh they said, yeah, we can do less than full-time training for you, blah, blah, blah. But but at the end of the day, they couldn't give me the hours that I needed. And when I needed, when say I needed hours, it didn't need to be family-friendly hours, they just needed to be rigid hours, so that I went to work at one time and came home at one time, and those times were fixed. Um, and that couldn't happen. So, you know, you're left with, well, okay, how do I pay the bills? And how do I continue to work in a profession until this difficulty has passed? Um, you know, that that my son has managed to get over some of his behaviours. Um, and basically, my partner at the time turned around and he said, Well, why don't you do that thing? And I said, What thing is that? He goes, you know, the thing, and he was pointing to his forehead and he was doing this. And I goes, What? He said, Do you know, where they can't move, they paralyze their face. Oh, and you mean Botox? He said, Yeah, well, honestly, the look I gave him, I think could have melted a wax version of him. And uh he said, no, no. He said, he said, do you know how much money they they they charge for it? And of course, I thought, right, money, ping, I need some, I need to pay the bills, let's have a look. And I did honestly, it was a day course um on, and and it was taught by a nurse on basically botuline and toxin injections, and this was 15 years ago now. Um, and I was utterly disgusted by the end of the course, and I tell you why I was disgusted. I I asked her, I said, would you let me inject you now? And she said no. I said, So if you don't don't want me to inject you, you're not confident that what you've just produced is safe to go out to the general public, and that got my typical clinical head going, and I started looking at doing things properly. So I started my little clinic and I started dealing with people who were having botch jobs and who were having problems. Um, and that's how Rosmedics come into being. It was an aesthetic clinic started in the front room of my house just to help pay the bills, but do it in the right way. Um, I still locumed where I could, uh, and I still locumed in AE, and I absolutely loved it, locumed with the medical um assessment unit, and I did the odd endocrine because they were my interest fell into those subjects. Um and it just it got bigger and bigger. But over the years in clinic, I noticed a pattern with with the my patients. They people would come in and they they know you're a doctor, and they've come because they know you're a you're you're a medical doctor. I I noticed a pattern. People weren't ill enough to go to their doctor, but they weren't well enough, or should I say, thriving to enjoy life. And that was the pattern I was getting. People were confident enough to come to see me, they wanted to see me, they felt comfortable enough to see me. And I I mean, as I'm putting, and let's be frank, as I'm putting a neurotoxin into their face, they're telling me about how they're not sleeping, they're not eating very well, they're putting on weight, or their weight's coming off and they're stressing at work, but there was a pattern, they just weren't enjoying life, they were just plodding along. And um at the same time, I think um I had my own health journey happening. I wanted to have um children in my late 40s. I mean, you know, as a medic, I knew that was going to be difficult, and I I sort of agreed to have them because I thought it won't happen anyway. But I knew that I had to give her a good chance, and to do that, I knew I had to be fit, I had to be healthy, I had to be a good weight, I had to have good um cardiovascular health. So I was I was on my own journey at that moment in time as well. Um and when you're on your own journey, you you you share stories and you do your own research. So I managed to have these kids, um, two little ones. I have a five-year-old and a seven-year-old, and I'm not afraid to say I'm 54. So I had one at 48 and I had one at 49. And um so having children later in life, balancing work, balancing the onset of perimenopause and menopause, and a severely autistic adult now, traditional medicine wasn't working for me. Uh I was having palpitations, I was putting on weight, I was I couldn't keep up, had no stamina, no vitality, but I wasn't, I wasn't sick, I wasn't ill, I didn't have um, I didn't have a pathology or a disease that I could put my finger on and say, I need to see a doctor. Um so I just went back to back to basics. Am I sleeping right? Am I eating right? Am I resting? Am I dealing with stressful situations? Because falling apart uh in a time when you're running a business, you've got two little ones, and you've got a very, I wouldn't say I had a chaotic household, but you know, it's sort of that ordered chaos that a woman lives in. It was, I needed to fix myself. And then as I was fixing myself, I was noting a pattern of what I was doing. And and I think that's I think that's what doctors do, don't they? They notice patterns. It's a it's part of our diagnostic um reasoning. We look and we see patterns, and it's part of finding out disease pathology. We just look at patterns, and again, I was look seeing patterns in what was working and how I felt better when I felt better. And I sort of created um a framework for myself to follow, and um I broke them down into seven principles for myself. I I call them seven principles, but that's for me, it's it's just a framework. Um, what I needed to change my behaviors, then I needed to eat and drink right, I needed to move a bit more, I needed to handle stress, I needed to just stop and enjoy life. And I was handing over this information to my clients who were walking in. I was telling them, do you know, intermittent fasting worked for me? Uh drinking um constructed water is a lot more healthy. And no, I don't constantly drink, I only drink when I think I need to drink, and I only eat when I'm hungry and that type of thing. Just very, very basic advice. And it was great because you know, these women were my age and they were following the advice, and they were really it was really helping them. So I started writing. about these uh these principles and if there's something that I've one thing that I've noticed on um social media because we're in the age of social media aren't we was that people don't like to read anymore certainly not books they want to be told and they want that what they're being told to be evidence based people like me in particular um and they want to watch you or they want to listen to you or they want to see nice pictures so I I did I did this framework as a series of videos it's like a video teaching and it went down really well um so yeah and I called it will uh wellness and health in life that's what it stands for will because I couldn't think of any other name um and it works really well and it I stick with it and I brought my family up with it and I mean I call it will but most people call it common sense but I just feel in this day and age just common sense is unless it's in short form you don't see common sense and there's very few people talking about common sense but they'll talk about will because it's interesting and it sounds interesting. So yeah that was my journey to try and fix myself and how I started off as a pharmacist so uh yeah it sounds really interesting when you say it but when you live it it's like you just plod and it just organically happens.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 21:49

Well it's inspiring to listen to it really is um quite remarkable and sitting there absorbing everything really really fascinating. And so maybe go into a little bit more detail in the programme because I'm sure people at home will be interested in this so you've got seven principles in the programme obviously you don't have to go through the whole thing in great detail can you just kind of give us the the broad headings of what these seven principles are and obviously we can put some more information on the bio page for anybody who wants to explore this further.

Dr Ros Jabar: 22:17

Yeah yeah well the the broadly I mean you know I let's go through them so I said there's seven principles. So the first is to actually look at your behavior so it's procrastination and habit forming uh you know helping people overcome that procrastination is difficult and I think as doctors we um um I went to a school not a great school in Cardiff and um but I believe I had some of the best teachers in Cardiff in and the one thing I will remember to this day and it's stayed with me is um one of my chemistry teachers said if you want to pass if you want to get the results you want to get you need to um create a framework of learning and you need to do this every single day and he gave me something that's very similar to the Eisenhower matrix have you heard of the Eisenhower matrix and it's basically um prioritizing and giving tasks priority so that you can you can get them done and uh he he said he gave me that Eisenhower matrix but he also said timetable everything. And that was one of the habits habits now that got me over procrastination. So I think that's really important because I can sit here and I can have a million things to do but I would prefer to doom scroll. I think everybody would and I would prefer to have a cup of coffee I would prefer to catch a I don't know Coronation Street or whatever's on TV rather than doing what I need to do which is going to take me literally two minutes but I would do everything other than that. So behavior so um that's the first thing I wanted to tackle then I wanted to do something really simple was basically the physiology about uh of your body the sleep why we need sleep now these two things I thought great they will work really quick so there's the circadian rhythm or um that's what I I put it in as and then the and that encompasses sleep then there was breathing there was also going out so solar supplementation I call it um get in your infrared rays get in your UV rays yes I know UV has a bad rap but we should have at least 10 to 15 minutes of it just to get our vitamin D levels up and we all know how good vitamin D is for you. You know there's movement that what you eat the whole foods you eat and and I say quite clearly if there's a packet of crisps that grows on a tree eat the packet of crisps has come off the tree that's fine but you're not going to find that are you you're going to find fruit and veg. So it's it's again bringing people back to to just those basic principles hydration sleeping walking um sun um movement as opposed to severe exercise nutrition breathing for stress relief um and getting your habits uh into place simple things that we probably do every single day without thinking but I think with today's technology and don't get me wrong I love technology that technology is why you and I are talking today and technology is something that I I will use in in a new clinic but sometimes it impinges on our life and our physiology and um a very long way down the line it will it will there'll be pathology associated with it and and that's what I try to get people to do just go back to who you are go back to basics and and that's what will does for people. Lovely what kind of pushback did you face when you started talking about lifestyle medicine with your colleagues oh dear dear well um well okay the thing is it's not measurable is it unless it there's been a randomized well it actually no it is measurable what am I saying of course it's measurable unless there's a worldwide randomized control trial that involves hundreds of thousands of people I know I'm being overly traumatic now and they don't want to know um and today's medicine I I sort of don't even want to call it traditional medicine because I think this is modern medicine we're talking about traditional medicine you you've got medicines that are thousands of years old and that we don't even look at in society sometimes today. But this modern medicine that we have unless you've got figures behind it unless you've got a big strong evidence base people don't really want to know. And it's because of the way we're taught in medical school you know pulling apart trials to show that there's that much of significance. I remember looking at these these papers that I had to look at and my maths and my physics is not the best and I had to work out whether this was a significant data or not and I just wanted to know well did it work did it actually work and so unless you've got figures and proof and authority weighed in it you know they don't want to know and unfortunately we're I hate using that term but it's almost quack like and fringe medicine that you're labeled as but funnily enough when I was doing endocrine most of my patients only wanted to come back and see me and it was because on top of giving their hormones and making sure that their adenomas were controlled or things like that I was also giving them lifestyle advice I was giving them advice on sleep I was giving them advice on nutrition walking and they were feeling those effects a lot better than they than the the negative effects they were getting from having hormone replacements and medicalization. So I remember giving us very small teaching on every Friday we had a teaching session and I wanted to talk about time restricted eating and how it's really really good for blood sugar. And of course there's been lots and lots of these trials but unfortunately my colleagues didn't didn't want to know and they unless like I said there's big data with it it's not seen as part of this modern medicine. I want to point out that I'm not anti-medicine I'm pro-health um I am a doctor at heart and I know how important medicine is in particular at crisis points when pathology the chronicity of illness had got to the point where that pathology is manifested and it's you do need to have that medical intervention. I am very much um pro-medic and that needs to be you know I work within the confines of of my um abilities put it that way so I guess my follow-up question that to that is how did you know it was time to stop trying to convince the system and build your own path that you've you've created I think it was that very embarrassing moment when every single one of my colleagues and I'm talking from professor to consult and these were my friends professor to consultant to registrars to junior doctors in one room were so against what I was saying that I thought well do you know if I I can't convince you and it's actually you're not and and this they weren't important what was important was the people that were coming to me and thriving and feeling better because that's why I begin went into medicine I went into medicine to help reduce suffering. I don't think we can you can only fix yourself but we as doctors externally our external input is that we can reduce suffering and I thought well I'm going to do this with patients out there. But the other thing that was really powerful was um it was social media the social media input there were people giving um that my concern was the rise of unqualified health advice on social media there was no clinical training and people were promoting things like drinking castor for gut health or inflammation for example I mean it's not helpful it's harmful and health isn't about hacks it's uh it's about context it's about dose um physiology the individual so you know I needed to also be that sort of buff and I kept saying that to the doctors I said unless we stand there and and put a voice to what health should be and healthy practices should be you've got people like these influencers with half a million people um watching them and going and glug in castor oil for goodness sake you know so somebody has to start taking the step leap forward now for me you just got to look at my background I'm told I'm never going to be a doctor no I'm going to step in and become a doctor I remember I mean you the the the the the animosity I faced opening a pharmacy was unbelievable. But I opened a pharmacy it's all about necessity and about doing the right thing and I will always do the right thing if to my detriment I'll do do the right thing um so I think you have to I think we as clinicians as healthcare providers as healthcare givers as as somebody who removes suffering I think we need to be given this advice um and it's completely like it's a natural step for me I've from gone natural step from pharmacy into medicine now it's a natural step for me to move in this direction and health and wellness is it and and no it's not a trend this isn't a trend this is this is life giving life saving advice needs to be given yeah here so are you seeing a change in what patients are wanting and expecting in your work at the moment especially perhaps women going through maybe hormone transitions absolutely women want to know more there's a lot there's so much information out there they just want somebody to remove the noise have a look at some of the evidence based stuff that's out there but also bring it into a uh a sustainable um how could you say a sustainable and something that made sense you know taking very difficult concepts making sense of them putting them together for people and saying this is going to help you it almost like a bespoke um advice somebody's gonna come in look a CEO of a company and um I don't know um a woman at home with three kids is going to need different advice and I think it's just looking at people the whole person and this is I suppose where the whole holistic medicine thing comes in looking at the whole person the way they live their life everything they do from how they sleep, eat everything how they handle stress and giving them advice to help them get back onto an even keel. Do you think there's anything that's still misunderstood about holistic or integrative approaches such as what you do um I think gone are the days where we were actually seen as quacks where we would ended up going talking about um I don't know sticking goose fat on your chest and stuff like that. I think that's getting better. I think the narrative is getting better because a lot more people are wanting this advice um but I still think we've got a long way to go and I think more and more clinicians need to be adopting this and and I know that's sort of happening when I say sort of happening is the first thing I did when I was having palpitations and and feeling unwell and not right is I went to see my own GP. His advice was here someestradiol you should be okay soon and then I went back a year later and he said oh you didn't come in for repeat prescriptions but you're looking really well and I said yes I said this is the advice I took and he said well where did you learn this? And he wants to learn it and and he what wants to give that advice so you know I applaud the fact that he came out with it but he could have given me that if he'd have known he could have given me that advice straight off right from the start you know before things went wrong before I had to go and look for it myself.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 36:21

So there's obviously a gap between what people are searching for and what conventional medicine is offering and what is in that gap what is in that gap do you think I I think I think what what it is is that conventional medicine it it's that crisis point isn't it it's it's the bit where we're it's we're we're too the pathology has gone too far for us to fix it.

Dr Ros Jabar: 36:49

So we need that medicine we need external advice we we need that um professional to help us um and then what I think people like you and I offer is that bridge before you get there it's just that noise in the middle before we get there. So you've got the well person you got that journey before they become unwell and you've got the doctor and I think we're that journey and I I and I think that's where we give people sustainable habits um and advice that they can that they can literally educate their whole family with and you have that that's where we are that's where I think we fall but I do believe that we need that medical training at the end to recognize when what we're doing isn't going to help them that they actually need pharmacological intervention as well so yeah that's that's the bit where I think I belong thank you and so now thinking about Rosmedics I mean what's what's going well for you right now it's obviously a business it's a clinic what are the things that you're sort of most proud of what's going well for you well uh what I'm really proud about is that we um we've got the the Will program online now and we've been offered this wonderful building uh not offered we looked for it wonderful building um just off Cathedral road in Cardiff um which will have again evidence based um um wellness treatments so we've got some intravenous infusions that we'll be doing we've got NAD uh we've got um hyperbaric and um some infrared basically a sort of wellness feel good place that you can come and of course the bit that I love which is my health optimization program so that person who has been to the doctor doesn't quite feel they got what they wanted for doesn't particularly want to go down the medicalized route the pharmacological route and it's coming in saying look I know something's wrong with me but I don't know what's wrong with me and the doctor says I'm absolutely fine and um I want you to help me and then my health optimization kicks in then and it's looking at the person their lifestyle their habits looking at their blood panels and and helping them to build a thriving life and I hope Rosmedics and will I don't hope I know ros medics and will will help that along super and the other side of the coin what are the challenges in doing the work that you do and is there anything you've had to recently overcome particularly perhaps as you were because we're moving into a new clinic what are some of the kind of things

Dr Andrew Greenland: 40:00

That you have to face?

Dr Ros Jabar: 40:02

Well, as a medical doctor, I have to be HIW registered, even if I'm just given advice because they're coming to me because it's a doctor. So funnily enough, there's more regulation that a doctor faces than maybe Joe blogs down the road in a little room giving advice on biohacking, for example, which we know in some instances can be very, very um dangerous for some people. So I've got a lot of regulation and bureaucracy that I've got to overcome. The other thing is so that you I've got to keep up with my, as we you know, doctors are GMC regulated and registered. We have to uh I have to have yearly appraisals, which means I've still working at the hospital. So that takes away the time I want to give. Um because I have to be validated, I have to be seen as a GMC registered doctor to have that validity to work anyway. So that's where my sort of time is not best used, but also it is best used. It's an odd thing to say, but I have to do that to be able to do what I love. Yeah. So so you so yeah, they're the difficulties, and of course, you're not just running um what you love. I'm not just running what I love. It's also a business. So I've got people that are reliant on me. So you've got the usual stresses and strains of a of a business, and and just trying to get people to businesses, for example. I would love for them to take up will because they would have an absolutely amazing workforce. They'll be resilient, they'll be absences will go down, and um, they've given something to their work colleagues that would really help their business. I want them to come and and see us and recognize us. You know, we it's that recognition, but it's it's getting them to believe it and getting them to understand it and know that it's the right way.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 42:20

If you had a magic wand and you could change one thing in how your practice runs, or perhaps the wider world of lifestyle medicine, what would it be?

Dr Ros Jabar: 42:33

The wider world of lifestyle medicine, I would love for there to be some type of module that medical students or doctors, actually, qualified doctors could have that they'd be able to implement the framework that I've that I've come up with. That they could do that before they see a patient. That framework. I want them to use that framework. That would make me really, really happy. Then I know I've done something meaningful to the world of medicine.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 43:10

That'd be wonderful to get in. I mean, the trouble is the I know the medical curricula are so overloaded, and the thing anybody wants to get in is always squeezing something in to squeeze something out.

Dr Ros Jabar: 43:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But do you know that I I've spoken to, so I'll be working with a pilot study with a school, a pilot study with um a law firm, and I'm more than happy to go in with and do a pilot study with the hospital to literally sit down with some of their newly qualified doctors and say, before you go looking at your patient, maybe look at these parts and give them a summary of what they could be doing with their patients. I mean, I'm more than happy to do that. I'm I'm I'm doing it already with with some people, but I would love to do that with my old university. I think that's that's the wand. Give me my old university and let me do that.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 44:03

Thank you. Obviously, you're on the brink of a new clinic, but if you had 100 new clients next week, what would happen? Would anything break? And hopefully not you or any of your colleagues.

Dr Ros Jabar: 44:14

No, we're ready for it.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 44:16

You're ready for it, bring it on.

Dr Ros Jabar: 44:18

Absolutely ready for it, bring it on. Yeah, it's it's a passion. It's not it doesn't, it's not work. This is a complete and utter passion. And when you live your passion, no, you it it doesn't break. Right.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 44:31

So thinking about the next year or so, what do what would you love to do with the will programme or rosmedics over the next year or so? Where where are you going in the future?

Dr Ros Jabar: 44:41

I would love for the will program to be adopted within schools um uh by uh the head masters mistresses for their teachers. Um, same with businesses, but at the same time, I'd probably want to develop will for children, for younger population, so that they can have um maybe a once monthly program talking about a principle, what sleep does, what blue light does, um, you know, the types of hydration, movement, getting all that with children really quite young, so that they can start going home and saying, Mom, I was told this today, ma'am, I was told that today, because they listen in school. And it's just helping our younger generation, our seven-year-olds upwards, to actually bring a bit of sensibility back into the home.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 45:40

With that, Roz, I'd like to thank you so much. This has been an absolute pleasure. I think so many listeners are going to resonate with your honesty and your courage in stepping out of the system and building something which truly supports healing. I think your journey has been truly inspiring, and so is your mission. And I wish you all the very best with it. But thank you very much for joining us today. Really appreciate it.

Dr Ros Jabar: 45:58

Oh, thank you so much for having me on. It's been an absolute pleasure, and uh yeah, you've made me actually even more passionate about what I'm going to do. So thank you so much for that.