Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:00

So welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is a podcast where we bring together practitioners, founders, and clinic owners across different disciplines to talk honestly about the work, the challenges, and the realities of caring for patients in today's healthcare landscape. The goal of this show is simple to create a ripple effect where practitioners can learn from each other, collaborate more effectively, and ultimately improve patient outcomes. Today I'm joined by Natalia Urquiza-Manzano. Natalia is a licensed mental health counsellor, certified clinical hypnotherapist, and the founder of House of Unashamed, where she works with women to break cycles of self-doubt, heal shame patterns, and rebuild confidence through a blend of clinical therapy, subconscious work, and empowerment coaching. So with that, I'd like to welcome you to the show, Natalia, and thank you very much for joining us today.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 0:44

Thank you so much for having me here. I'm really excited to have this conversation.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:48

So maybe we could start a little bit about start at the top and maybe talk a little bit about your journey, how you ended up doing what you do will be really interesting, I think, for everybody that's listening.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 0:58

Sure. Thank you for um for asking. This is actually my favorite part is the journey. And um it actually started at the age of 15 when I first entered a therapeutic relationship with my own um counselor. And in that eight-month journey, I recognized that I really wanted to do what she did. And it there was just something about being able to talk to someone that made me feel so comfortable with the issues, you know, issues that I brought into that room that inspired me to find a way of paying that forward in some shape, uh way or form in the future. And unfortunately, as life goes, there was a couple of hiccups. I had a child at 19. I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue the pursuit of higher education because being a single mom was really difficult. But along the way with um postpartum depression and having to seek clinical um care at some point after my pregnancy, I realized that there was very little help out there for individuals, not just women, but all people in general. It was not as accessible to find mental health services at a price that was, you know, doable for people at in the college range, age age. And so I decided to shift my major to um psychology and also religious studies. I wanted to understand how faith and the way people believe about a higher power mixed with psychology can help others understand what their purpose is, why they're here, and to find meaning making in the negative or the not so good experiences so that we can have an empowered approach towards our life and our future. And so I uh I found my home in a rehab center for women. It was Susan B. Anthony's Women's Recovery Center. That's where I did my practical. And I fell in love with addiction treatment and trauma treatment. And so my career has mainly focused in that area. And about a year ago, I left the industry and decided to start my own practice when I recognized that there was a lot that could be done for mental health treatment that wasn't being done in these types of settings. Insurance doesn't cover, or it's just not effective when people get well quick, you know, quickly. So I um it just it gave me the idea. Let me go and start empowering others to wake up to the truth of who they are so that they can start living their life unashamed.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 3:48

Thank you for sharing that. Really always interesting to hear the inspiration behind um what you've created. So you've obviously created the house of uh unashamed, and you've really focusing on shame as one of the things you help people with. What kind of draw you specifically to this whole thing around shame? Because it's quite niche in the chemotherapy space. So I'm just kind of curious of how you've kind of gone down that path.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 4:10

Yeah, I I had a lot of things happen to me over the course of my life, and I was always really open about sharing things, and I realized that as I shared it, I gave voice to things that seemed really scary but weren't that scary once it was said out loud. And in my own one-on-one sessions throughout my years of working in treatment, I would self-disclose, you know, appropriately about a certain situation that was extremely traumatic in my life, but how I was able to overcome it. And in just naming this shameful experience, the client in front of me felt almost like unburdened and safe enough to say, hey, like, wow, if you're sitting here in front of me and you're okay and you're sober and you're you're here talking about it in a way that's not scary or it's not shameful, then maybe I can too. And something that I recognized is that it is not our fault, the things that happened to us. And so we shouldn't live with this state of shame, embarrassed about our history, the things we've done, the things that were done to us, if those were stuff that we had absolutely no control over. So wanting to change the narrative around how we look at our trauma story to me seemed like the only way through empowering ourselves to really live a life like aligned with our purpose and what we came here to do.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 5:35

So could you perhaps talk about how hypnotherapy and subconscious work fit alongside traditional mental health in your model?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 5:41

Oh my gosh, yes, this is what I'm most passionate about. Um before I answer that, I kind of want to go back just a little bit to share the just the moment that had like that aha moment where I was like, okay, this is what's missing in mental health treatment. I was a chronic relapser. I would do really well in my life and then I would sabotage. I would either uh use substances or go back to my um behavioral or process addictions. And there was this, like if things were going good, it was almost always guaranteed that I was going to sabotage. And in 2023, I was at my lowest point. I had just um barely made a year of sobriety again after my last relapse. And I was gifted by my employer a 50, no, 500-hour course. Sorry, 500-hour course of hypnotherapy. And in those 10 months, as a student, we were also the guinea pigs for the other students. And so I had a lot of childhood regressions, a lot of uh parts work done within hypnosis, and I started noticing these shifts in my life. I was no longer craving to wreck my life in the way that I always had. Things would go good, and it's like incrementally, I build tolerance to the distress of things going well in my life. And I was able to successfully sustain sobriety. Actually, currently, right? Like there has been no relapses. I've given up even like the small uh nicotine, for example, that is seen as like an okay thing to use. I've been able to overcome a lot of these things that have hindered my progress. And also recognizing that in doing the subconscious work, we're going directly to the core of why we believe the things that we believe. So we can shift from the subconscious perspective. We're raising, you know, the likelihood that we're not going to repeat certain patterns because it's shifting now from that subconscious place. And something that I've always believed is that the subconscious is like that smoke alarm that we forget to change the battery out on. It's always beeping in the background, right? And we know we have to change it, but we don't want to go get the stepladder. And eventually we just don't hear it anymore because it's happening so frequently that it's no longer a threat. Our our mind isn't uh conscious to it. And with subconscious work or hypnotherapy, we're able to dig into what's beeping in the background in order to kind of like replace the battery so that it's functioning well enough and it's no longer beeping or driving the bus to our self-sabotage. And so, in in the way that I work, it's how can we identify the core wounds that shape the beliefs that are driving your life? And then when are you like when there is safety and stability, we go into those places so that we can shift it from whatever age that is and recreate the narrative in a way that is beneficial to whatever the goal is that the client came in wanting to work on.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 8:53

Thank you. Really, really helpful. So, for clinicians listening, where do you see hypnotherapy adding something that perhaps talk therapy alone sometimes can't help?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 9:03

So I see talking as, you know, just we're going around in circles. We're very much in our head. We can intellectually get something, but hypnotherapy allows us to do something about it. And so, in essence, walking the talk as opposed to just talking about it, I do get a lot of clients that will say, Oh, I'm I'm I'm super self-aware. I just I know why I sabotage. Okay, then why are we still sabotaging? If if you really do have the awareness and you recognize what you are doing, then why do we keep falling into that pattern? And so with hypnotherapy, what I recognize is that we are giving a voice to the actual issue that the client might not necessarily, guess intellectually they can see it, but can they embody it? Can they integrate it? And can they move forward in now a way that is productive to not so not self-sabotaging anymore?

Dr Andrew Greenland: 10:01

Thank you. And um, you've been doing this work for a little while now. So, what are you noticing in terms of client expectations? What are clients expecting from you when they turn up compared to perhaps a few years ago when you were starting out?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 10:14

What I notice the most now is a quick, like they want a quick fix. Uh, I want to feel better, tell me what's wrong with me. How can I stop, you know, vaping? How can I stop going out with the same types of guys? How, you know, because there are like these uh validation addiction is a very big thing that we're seeing currently. And so a lot of clients come with that idea, okay, how can I stop going out with those toxic guys and find the right person? Uh, well, first let's find out why you're even attracted to those toxic people. And so it's there's no um wanting to do the deeper work, they want to bypass straight to the feeling better. And a lot of things also point to wanting um almost to be coddled. Uh, the saying that I use is like, I don't want to co-sign your BS. And a lot of clients do want to be cosigned and want to almost get like the permission to keep sabotaging. And I notice that I'll get clients, for instance, to come into session and they just want to talk about something and we'll talk three, four, five sessions. And then it's like, hey, hey, hey, like, why are we here? Um, I'm not your friend. We're not just chit-chatting. Do you want to get better or do you not? Because like I want like you're here to get better, and it's my job to push you there. And sometimes I I have lost clients. They don't like that approach, they don't want to be told that they're talking too much about the problem, not doing something about the problem. But I I like to believe that there is a way to the other side, there is a way to get better, and talking about it isn't it? And why waste your time and your resources if I know that we can get you there and you're ready to get there? I mean, you wouldn't have signed up if you weren't. Um thank you.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 12:06

And do you think, I mean, a client in your experience, are clients coming in more informed, more overwhelmed, or a bit of both?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 12:14

I would say a bit of both. They're very informed, but by what Instagram and TikTok have to say. So I know my attachment wounds, and I know that I do this, and I recognize that I self-sabotage, and okay. Um, but then you give them actual resources that might be beneficial, and because it challenges whatever influencer is speaking on that topic, they're not necessarily happy about it, or they're more likely to challenge. I've gotten into these like challenge, and I do welcome, let me first say that I welcome a client to challenge me if they don't agree with what I'm saying or with what I'm um suggesting the course of treatment look like. It is their their plan, and I want them to have a say in it. But it's funny when they ask me for um a recommendation or a suggestion, and when I offer that resource to them, they're like, but this is wrong and this is boring, and why would I do this? Because it's psychoeducational, it's helpful, it's research back, read it, like try it. If you don't like it, then we can talk about it. But there's a lot of being closed off just because it's not what's mainstream today.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 13:24

You've just mentioned social media, so I've got to ask. I mean, there's obviously a lot of misinformation out on social media. There's probably some very helpful information. How do you navigate all of that with clients that come in? They've obviously seen stuff on social media. How do you kind of handle it all?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 13:39

Ooh, that's a good one. I I being completely transparent is something I struggle with. There are times where I'll post on my own business page and then I'll take a three-month hiatus because it's just so overwhelming. And when I have clients say, Hey, I saw this influencer do that, or I just wish I could do this, like this influencer, I have to remind them that they are human and that they most likely have tripods set up all over their house or their apartment, and they're editing everything that they don't want to be seen. Also, one of the things that I think is really important is what are the credentials that this person is using in order to speak on that topic? It's a a lot of people do have lived wisdom or lived experience that they're teaching from, and I think that's great. However, I also think it's important for you to verify what qualifies this person as an expert in this field apart from just the lived experience.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 14:41

And how do you help clients bridge the gap between the insight into their condition and actual change? Because there's a bit of a void there. I just wonder how you negotiate that.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 14:52

So, what you're asking is once they have that aha moment, how do we integrate that into real actionable steps? Yeah. Yeah. Um what I like is in our sessions, we might have these aha moments. And then it's, well, let's talk about it. What does that feel like in the body? Is that scary to you? Is it anxiety provoking? Are you excited about this? Is it making you sad or angry? Right. We also have to be very in touch with what is coming up the moment that aha moment happens. I notice a tendency for people to dissociate and not stay in the body when they have these aha moments. So for me, my my number one goal is for them to be in the body and really maybe body scan, check what's coming up for you, how's it feel, and how can I support you in this moment to build that tolerance to the distressing feeling. I also tell clients that emotions are the way that we receive communication, right? There are certain things that are going on that we might not be cognitively aware of. And so emotion is a way for us to really lean in and try to understand what's happening from a very different perspective. When we spend time to just pause and really try to see, okay, what's coming up for me, only then can we move to the next step. And for me, it's okay, if you had this aha moment, and I'll give you an example. I recognize that I like to pick up cigarettes or vaping every time I go through a very stressful period at work. So if I see what those red flag warnings are of the stress level going up, it's time for me to practice that pause because I have the awareness, right? That's why we came in. I know what the problem is. But now am I going to stop and challenge? Am I craving to pick up this nicotine, the vape, or the cigarette because I'm overwhelmed, because I'm avoiding something, because it's good for me, right? Am I doing this for my addiction or am I doing this for my recovery? I think that like asking that question is really good to understand. Am I sabotaging knowingly? And then what are the tools that we learned in session that you can apply in that moment so that you can completely change the avenue or like the direction that you're going? And I call that opposite action. If you always do the same thing in these situations, then it just makes sense that we have to do something different in order to break the cycle.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 17:23

I get it. And obviously, any kind of um therapeutic work, there's always that risk of transference and you have to look after yourself. So, how do you look after yourself when you do this kind of work? How do you prevent burnout? How do you prevent yourself from carrying all this emotional burden that can often be coming across from your clients?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 17:42

I love that question. One, I have my own therapist. I make sure I sometimes I have to see her more often than other times. And I think that's also very important for any clinician or any type of um practitioner that works with other clients, is making sure that you can call yourself out when you're in need of a tune-up or you're in need of checking in with someone. So every now and then I do reach out, like, hey, tough week, when can we meet? And then there are times where I'm okay for two, three, four weeks, and then I can see her after a month because clients are more stable and I'm okay managing that. I also think having some type of ritual, like ritualistic self-care. I like to journal. Um, my spirituality is really important to me. So whether it's reflecting with oracle cards in a journal, whether it's taking some type of spiritual class, like um learning to read the akasha or the akashic records, Reiki, just little things that fill me up or fill my cup up so that I'm ready to go during those hard weeks. And also scheduling breaks. I have on my, I don't have the phone next to me because I didn't want distractions, but I usually have every day on my calendar take breaks. And so whenever I check the time, I see that take breaks. And I'm like, okay, I guess it's time to, you know, go stretch my legs, go get some air, go take the dog out, go, you know, go do something out outside of just being here hyper focused on what I'm doing. Um yeah, just finding things that I love that keep me happy and remind me of why I'm doing this in the first place. And painting, I think, is like one of my biggest things, also, where I kind of just get to let out emotion without having to use words, and it creates something really cool.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 19:33

Well, thank you for sharing. I mean, this self-care is so important across all modalities, and I think we as doing patient-facing work, we must all be very, very mindful of looking after ourselves. So thank you for sharing what you do to look after yourself. So, House of Unashamed is a business as well as a clinic. What's going particularly well from a business angle for you at the moment?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 19:53

I say that there's what's going particularly well is that it's it's seeing a lot of clients and We're helping transform a lot of client lives. It's just me, so there's only so much that I can do. And the I mean, to be completely honest, I think the the number one thing that's going well is that I'm able to carry it by taking these self-care breaks, to be completely honest. Um, you know, I'm not really sure. I think I've I've structured or built a foundation with my EHR system, with my scheduling platform. I'm doing everything that I can to make signing up, appointment setting, follow-up, sending homework, reviewing homework, things of that nature super easy so that there is not too much work that has to go through in that sign-up or in-between process.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 20:48

Brilliant. And on the other side of the coin, are there any particular challenges or bottlenecks that you feel most impact you at the moment? Or is there anything you've recently had to overcome in order to do the work that you do?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 21:00

I would say the most challenging part is working remotely can be very isolating. And that is something that we all have to be very honest with ourselves. Yes, it's great to work from home and have this freedom, and it's also a very lonely experience. And if that goes unchecked, then mental health can struggle, and then business, of course, can decline. Another issue that I notice, and it's not just me, it's other practitioners that I talk to, is this the whole social media marketing. A lot of us just want to do what we do. We're really good at what we do, and we don't want to have to compete with a bunch of other, whether it's influencers or experts that know what's right, when that's not what we study. They don't teach us how to market in grad school. And I would say that that has been really challenging, overcoming that fear of visibility without even and also not knowing, right? Like how to edit a video or how to um show up with these cool aesthetics on online when is that really what's important, right? So I would say that that's an issue because right now, how do we find people that we want to work with with their online presence? And so it's something that I am currently trying to navigate and seeing if I can figure out a back-to-basics, like in-person way of just putting myself out in the community and and really uh mingling with people in person and hopefully transferring that to my online practice.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 22:29

Thank you. Are there any particular time drains that you have at the moment? Obviously, you're um doing an awful lot. You have the whole business side of things to run, you're doing the clinical work. Is there anything that takes more time than you would otherwise like? Maybe it's something you've already said, but I'm just curious to know what sucks up time from your calendar and you know jeopardizes your uh rest breaks that you have programmed in.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 22:50

I would say it doesn't happen as often anymore, but what was jeopardizing now was just my lack of boundary or my not lack of boundaries, but weak boundary setting. So as I learn, right, because working from home was very different for me, apart from being like in a rehab setting where I could just close my door and give office hours. It's setting the boundaries and following them and not feeling guilty or um bad about not responding to an email right away, or just that urgency feeling of having to do so much all at once. And that's something that I am currently like really working on because I am human and there are times where I go back into my default mode where I want to answer and I want to do everything all at once. And what I recognize is that if I do that, then I'm no good in session or I'm not good for my family.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 23:47

Obviously, always having more clients and work is really, really handy. But if you had a sudden surge of demand, I don't know, in the week's time and your demand doubled, what would take the strain? Hopefully, not you.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 24:00

What would take the strain? Oof. That's a good question. I I I'm not really sure. I think the first thing would be me being completely honest with myself. How much can I hold right now? And am I gonna have to refer out? And I think that's something a lot of speaking for myself, let me not put words in other people's mouth, but ego comes into play. Like I can't be seen as I can't take it or I'm not good enough or I'm not capable. Recognizing that I'm human and that I have limits is really important. And so if I do have to refer out, then that's what I would do. And I do have a network of other clinicians that I truly admire and have worked alongside with over the years that I do refer out to. And we do that to each other. So I think it helps take that weight off in case something like that were to happen.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 24:53

Have you ever thought about um group work and how that might work for what you do? Um, or whether it's just something you always want to do one-to-one, or even digital support, because you know, we are in these times. I'm just wondering what your thoughts were on those two kind of methods of reaching people.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 25:09

Yeah, I actually love group work. I in person, when I worked in treatment centers, that was my thing. I loved facilitating groups, I love teaching, I love being in the energy of all of these clients and how we can mirror things to each other without even recognizing it. And so as the facilitator, I can see these things happening in real time and use it or leverage it as a way of shifting perspective more quickly. And funny that you should ask, it's actually something that I've been brainstorming creating. Um, and what I've done it a few times already. I call it Girls Night In. And it's uh it could be a night or an evening or even an afternoon, but that's just what I have right now. But what I see here is inviting women to come and discuss a certain topic, whether it's validation seeking, whether it's abandonment wounds, attachment issues, just any type of um common topic that or common thread that I see amongst my clients, I bring forward into this group setting. And because I do enjoy using uh tools that bring out subconscious or unconscious themes, I do bring oracle cards, or I might even use the Akashic Records as a way of making it fun. It's here we are talking about something very serious, but then let's use these tools as a way of bridging the gap. How can we shift perspective from being in it to being over it? And I I explained that using these cards in group, it's almost as if this might be the worst example ever, but it's the only one I can think of. Uh, like mice in a little maze and being the researcher on top, you know where the mice are going and you know where the dead ends are. Um, but when the mice is in there, they don't really know, they're just basically going based on instinct. And so these cards allow us for a moment to kind of take a step back and see from this higher perspective. And in these group uh settings, after we have the discussion and after we do the cards or the akasha, what I like to do then is give real life, like whether it's shadow work or inner child prompts for them to take home, just some type of grounding exercise that they can use in between whether they want to continue working with their therapist, with myself as a coach, or doing the next group activity that we have.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 27:37

So if you were starting your practice again tomorrow, or would is there anything that you would do differently based on the experiences that you've had, or perhaps you probably could do exactly the same again? I don't know.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 27:48

I think I wouldn't hesitate as much. I think I let fear drive the bus for a really long time. The what-ifs were really loud. And if I learned anything, is that everyone has to suck at something in order to be really good at it. And I would stop doubting that I was capable and just go with it. Um, I had a mentor once tell me, just start. Start afraid, start messy, start without knowing, but just start because once you put that foot in front of the other, the momentum naturally builds, and like you'll undoubtedly know where you're supposed to be going.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 28:23

And finally, um looking ahead to the next 12 months, what does success look like for House of Unashamed?

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 28:30

I love this question. Success for House of Unashamed looks like meeting more women, um, initiating change, and um just bringing a community together where like-minded um individuals, in particular women that want to stop shaming themselves, can come together as a group to empower each other to continue to successfully uh reach their goals.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 28:57

Amazing. With that, I would like to thank you so much, Natalia, for joining me today. It's been so interesting hearing about your story, the inspiration behind what you do, some of the work that you do, how your clinic helps the clients that you serve. Thank you so much and um really appreciate it.

Natalia Urquiza-Manzano: 29:12

Thank you. Thank you so much. It was awesome.