Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:00

Welcome back to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is the podcast where we sit down with practitioners, founders, and innovators in the health space and talk real strategies, real challenges, and what it actually takes to grow up practice while staying aligned with our values. I'm your host, Dr. Andrew Greenland, and today I'm joined with somebody doing incredibly nuanced work in the behavioural health space. Dr. Michele Bechor is a licensed psychologist and the founder of Emblem Psychology and Consulting, based in Florida. She specializes in anxiety treatment. And one of the things she that really stands out about her approach is her focus on what she calls parenting the environment, advising family members of those or those with chronic mental health or behavioral challenges to help support lasting change. So with that, I'd like to welcome you to the show, Michele, and thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr Michele Bechor: 0:44

Thanks so much for having me. I fully appreciate it. I'm excited.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:47

So maybe we could start with your journey. Perhaps you'd be happy to talk about your path into behavioral health and what drew you into this field in the first place.

Dr Michele Bechor: 0:55

Yeah, it's quite a long story. I'll see what I can do. Okay. So I really know that I had a really interesting, like really deep interest in behavior more in my upper high school years. And I was quite confident I was going to go be a pediatric neurologist starting college. I was in a specialized program for biology, and a lot of us were pre-medicine. And then somewhere in that biology-heavy time and early college, I was realizing that I didn't want to learn what a certain chemical specifically did to the brain, let's say like lithium. I didn't, I wasn't as interested in a chemical as I was in people's stories and people's lives. And in psychology, I even switched from bio and chem's double major to psychology. When I did, I was realizing it's so much more about for me, the stories. I'd rather learn a lot more about how someone's life changed after a car accident and how he behaves, as opposed to what a chemical specifically does. So I started to notice that shift in myself, got really interested in research as it was. Um, and I switched into developmental psychobiology. So I knew at some point I wanted to end up with children and adolescents because I like the brain, I like behavior, I like working with young people. Um, and then, you know, throughout my four undergrad years, I was doing a ton of research and a lot more interested in stories. And even in developmental psychobiology, all I wanted to know was how it affects the person's story, their day-to-day, their lives. Like it was much more about the social human aspect for me. Um, so I got an interest in clinical psychology in my upper undergraduate years. One of my professors actually noticed that in me and said I should go and turn clinical when I was about to just get, you know, or apply for PhD programs in developmental. Um, and so I got really interested really quickly and switched over and started to do research in clinical psychology. That was more the applied versus the basic kind of work. Um, again, it was about stories and people's needs and people and helping people. So I then got into a PhD program for clinical psychology with a child focus. And um, I mean, really from there it was about the families, like it expanded into um what makes people behave a certain way, what can change people's actions, what eventually helps people feel more empowered. Like the main undercurrent or you know, interest of mine is to have people find within themselves the way that they can just overcome. Usually it's going to be a certain sensation in the body, a feeling, a thought. But main thing is I want to empower them. And if I can do it when they're younger, to me, even better. Although I've also been really um finding a lot of reward in working with adults in the last few years.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 3:37

Love it. I do love the backstories to and the guests that we have on. So insightful to hear how what's led them to what they do and their what their passions are. So thank you for sharing that. Um, so what made you decide to launch Emblem Psychology? Um what stage is the practice at right now?

Dr Michele Bechor: 3:52

Okay, yeah, so Emblem Psychology, I would say, is in its initial few months. I would say it's like in its infancy, and that's for a lot of reasons. What made me want to launch it is throughout my entire career, what I knew I wanted to do was have variety. I mean, that's one thing that just as a person keeps me really engaged and interested, and me wanting to have a wide spread of whatever it is, help, influence, you know, whether it's disseminating information or helping people directly one-on-one, or um, somehow finding a way to implement some skills in a large amount of people, whatever it will take. Um, what I wanted for the longest time is variety. Um, I was finding in my career that there were certain phases, especially, you know, postgraduate training, where I was loving that I was learning. I never want to stop learning, and I didn't necessarily get the chance to always have that, let's say, distribution of skill sets the way I wanted to. I not only that, I wanted to see if I could try to take what I've learned, let's say, with this parenting the environment kind of idea and really flex my own muscles, right? I've always wanted to have a combination of teaching, project management or research, and then direct clinical work. So I'm so grateful for all the training I had. And then finally I'm in a space in my life where it just first of all like happened really quite easily. I'm super excited to take all of the training I have, all the rigorous work I've done, and finally apply it. I mean, again, it's the applied of the applied, and um, and really just kind of again express my professional interest, just all in the in the in the vein of helping other people. It's very new, like I mentioned, it's been around for a few months. Um, I really just ended up recently being able to switch over to focus on it full-time, which is such a blessing. And um, and with that, I mean, I'm actually more like excited to see what ends up happening in the next few months in terms of distribution of activities for myself and what I can pretty much make happen with the resources I have so far.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 5:52

Lovely. Well, I wish you well on your journey. We'll perhaps come into that in a little bit as well. Um, so you do a lot of work around anxiety and more uniquely supporting families of individuals with chronic issues. Um, can you tell about tell us a bit more about your approach in this area?

Dr Michele Bechor: 6:07

Sure. I was thinking about this um more recently, especially, and if I have to break it down especially into what I've been working on more recently, my skill sets, especially clinically, but they all have research interests behind them too. Um, are it there's three main ones. I would say the first is anxiety/slash OCD and related behaviors. Uh, that would be for adults and children. Then I would say it's you know, parenting, working with your parents and or siblings, basically anyone, any kind of caregiver in the environment. Um, because I'll call it parenting the environment when also it's really just about considering that person in context and what's influencing their behavior. And I would also say that more recently um I've had an influx of patients and a lot of more personal interest in um body-focused repetitive behaviors, things like hair pulling, skin picking, nail biting. And I mean, that's what kind of colors my caseload, you know, now throughout the week, almost every day, um, you know, doing probably all three. And then my approach, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 7:09

Sorry, I'm sorry.

Dr Michele Bechor: 7:10

Sorry, second part of the question. So, my my approach, um, I'll I'll speak with something very broadly and then talk about my own application of the broad concept. So, my approach is cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a really wide umbrella, but it's the most efficacious treatment known for the problems I mentioned earlier. And my approach is a lot more about the behavior than perhaps cognitions. I mean, I will definitely speak about thoughts and I will try to link how someone's beliefs can shape their actions, but a lot of times as a clinician, my specific approach emphasizes that you really aren't anything until you behave it. And so that helps a lot of people, especially when their thoughts can get really powerful. I mean, all their creativity, all their intelligence kind of rounds on threat or the wrong thing in their environment, and then their behavior follows. So their life is pretty much stymied by that. So I like to emphasize behavior, de-emphasize cognition if I can. And then also I like to try to have people consider how much they might be comfort-oriented. Not to say they shouldn't be comfort-oriented, but if they're doing a lot of things just to find relief or to prevent a really negative experience for themselves, maybe even over-controlling things so that they'll just be comfortable. I want to point that out with them and I want to kind of coach them and I would say partner with them to start to shift their philosophy from I just want relief, I just want comfort to function. Like, wait a minute, is that gonna work for me? Is this behavior doing anything for my life? Is this kind of keeping me from what I want to do? Is it keeping me from being free and having choices? So shifting that philosophy from comfort to function is a lot of what I do, whether I'm working on you know body-focused predator behaviors or parenting or family therapy or you know, anxiety and related disorders.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 9:03

Thank you. Um, so you you're helping families um, and you mentioned about parenting the environment, but obviously you do deal with families more generally. How do you help families generalize the behavioral skills that their loved one is working on?

Dr Michele Bechor: 9:16

So um I'll pretty much take any family at, I would say, either a level of readiness, meaning any almost any level, or really just more in a family unit, who in the family is most ready to work. And I'm really thankful for some manuals out there that are now evidence-based that can have you approach parents first as needed. Because what I'm realizing is while I've worked with parents for several years, of children, of adults, of people of really like any age and with a lot, a wide range of issues, it really ends up being much more about how much I can just change that person's surroundings. So if it's through parents, great, you know. So if parents are more ready than the child, which could be the case, usually is the case, um, then I'm going to parents. I mean, they're motivated, they want to work, and they are sometimes, most of the time, more open to realizing if they might be contributing to any problem behaviors. And that's usually because of really deeply scientifically backed principles of behavior that they're not really aware of. So I'd love to advise on that. And then if let's say the child is ready, then if they're appropriate for the medium that I have, in person or telehealth, then I'll work with a child directly. And I've worked, I mean, from you know, age five and up, basically. So what I'm often doing is I'm trying to take either treatment principles or concepts or a lot of um, I would say storytelling about other examples of people and how they've done in certain situations. And I'm trying to just make it appropriate for their level. Specifically for the family-based part, what I'm doing a lot that I'm noticing is a is rather different from a lot of my clinicians, my fellow colleagues, is I'll work with, let's say, parents, and let's say in a few sessions, if the child is more ready for talking and for change, then I'll invite the child in. And it would be either with parents present or child alone. And it's sort of that flexible family companion kind of role, uh, which I've seen, I've seen in some way, although a lot of colleagues of mine have said, oh, I get kind of concerned about you know working with both of them together. I have to read the situation myself, of course, and see if their interests are aligned. And if they're not, if there's anything that can be done about it. So overall, I just go, okay, well, I'll either work with the child, the parents, the siblings, whoever I need to, really just for all these problem behaviors to decrease.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 11:38

Thank you. And from your seat, um, what are some of the biggest challenges in behavioral health today?

Dr Michele Bechor: 11:44

I would say um some of the things I may have already mentioned briefly, and and more recently, too, I was having a conversation about AI. And that's what a lot of my colleagues are talking about. I would say that's one of the threats in the industry, more because of people's misconceptions. I would say beyond that, though, AI is more just an extension of what I would say is one of the problems in behavioral health. It's people may uh misunderstand what behavioral health is or what treatment looks like. People also have a lot of barriers to evidence-based treatments. And that's again my philosophy as a professional, trying to implement what's been subjected to rigorous experimentation. There's different approaches, and they're not necessarily wrong. Um, and with AI, again, AI being an extension of what I think is some of the problems, it's, I mean, it's just a lot of people and how they just tend to want to find relief immediately. So if I come to you and I say, you know, you can just do three quick steps and then this will hopefully feel better today, versus if you want to do like 30 steps that aren't easy, but the change will be more lasting. It's like I'm kind of selling a less popular thing if I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist who believes in like big change, you know, environmental change. So I really can't judge either approach because I can only imagine for certain issues, you if it seems appealing or quick and you just want relief, you're gonna go right for it. But I understand myself, you know, going to people and saying, hey, I know you keep seeking relief for a problem, a really big problem. And what I've seen for other people, of course, just like you, is if they bear down and are patient and repetitive and can really make the space in their lives to make all these changes, which is really hard to do, they tend to see what they want to see, you know. So again, I have to kind of like sell the unpopular items sometimes. That's how I think it is, just because a lot of things can be relief-oriented, like quick comfort type things. That's where the AI piece comes in, right? So if people are just looking up their symptoms and trying to get their diagnosis and trying to figure out how to do treatment or even chat with AI to get the response because it's cheap and available, I understand it and I get concerned about the quality and if they're really just feeling better for the moment versus for the long run.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 13:58

Thank you. I'm glad you mentioned the AI thing. I have a massive interest in AI, and I'm really interested that you mention it first on your list. And I was really wanted to dig down. Is it um the fact that it's implying there is a quick fix, or is it the fact that people are trying to get therapy from AI and you're concerned about the content or a bit of both or other things within the AI space that bother you? I'm really want to get some clarity on this from my perspective because I find it really interesting.

Dr Michele Bechor: 14:24

Yeah, yeah, there's a phenomenon going on, even in how you're that you're asking the question, because the phenomenon behind is I've spent a lot of time in this content, right? Like I've spent many, many years learning how to apply a lot of concepts and also picked up stories of people's change, and then I'm able to personalize, let's say, a whole library of concepts or treatment techniques. I mean, I'm basically what my job is is to look through my mental Rolodex of the skills I have and bring them to you in real time so it's personalized to you. Like I know that's what I do in my work. That's a lot of training, that's very humanizing, that's a big human base of what I do. And basically, I would say more than a lot of other treatments, I know, I carry the treatment via the relationship I have with my patient. So the quality of the relationship is extremely important. It's that people need to believe in my ability. So our therapeutic alliance is really high, and that's been shown beyond so many variables to actually bring the best outcomes. So that you're asking the question, right, um, implies that I know out there someone can kind of simulate what I'm doing. And I haven't yet seen, I would say, the ability of a computer, not to sound too challenging. Um, I have deep respect for the AI, but but not to say, you know, but I haven't seen the computer like personalize material the way that I've seen a human do it. It looks like it does, and or it will regard you positively and so much. At the same time, if a therapist approaches you and is very change-oriented, they they're not necessarily going to say everything about you is perfectly fine, keep doing what you're doing. They're also not going to imply that your environment is never going to change. I talk about change in every session I have with everybody. You know what I mean? So um, so so I think the concern is I'm seeing something that can look like it's doing what I'm doing, and I have a really deep understanding of first of all, change and second of all, personalization. I don't know if I've seen that with AI.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 16:30

No, I hear you and the reason the reason I ask you the question was I actually had a patient today who's basically shoved a whole load of stuff into Chat GPT and come out with some kind of commentary or advice on what he should be doing. And I was really worried by what he was saying. There's the lack of nuance, the lack of ability to weight things, you know, to kind of uh overcast over catastrophize really small risks and underrepresent the big risks. Um, and I find it very concerning. It's um but before AI I had the problem with Dr. Google. I completely understand where you're coming from, and it really resonates with me just because of a patient experience I had today. And I'm really interested to hear that you're finding the same thing in the space.

Dr Michele Bechor: 17:10

It's been going on too, right? 15 years ago or something, there was like WebMD, and people were just Googling their symptoms. I totally and and and I understand the motivation. My understanding of it is people really want relief and they're in the dark and they don't necessarily think that they can easily find an expert. I mean, what am I saying, right? Easily find an expert. That being said, if a lot of your emotions are kind of navigating you where you have a lot of sense of privacy around these problems, I don't blame you, right? It's cheap and available and it's smart. You know, I've seen some of the stuff and I've asked it questions and all that, and I appreciate it. I also know as a professional, I have to look at every single word that's coming out because it is a little cookie cutter. How else could it not be? So, really, it's more just like you're saying, they're not getting personalized advice with nuance included, with the person's history, with context as much either. It's really, really great. I wish for people to understand that it is limited and it's it's like a really powerful thing that can be misused quickly.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 18:11

Totally agreed. So you mentioned families a lot today. And do you think families are becoming more in more involved and informed, or do you think there are still quite large gaps in expectations and education?

Dr Michele Bechor: 18:25

Oh, I want to say I see both. I think they both exist. Um you kind of get a mixed bag too, as a practitioner. People that are very, very well informed. They've been, you know, using the lingo and made great, I thought, great choices that helped their family from a young age. And chronically, like they've there are lots of families that are well informed on top of it. They're really paying close attention, parents paying close attention to their children. It's really wonderful to see. And they're the ones that are going to be users of therapy. They're they're usually going to believe in it, um, understand even that it can be very difficult, but be willing to stick with it. I also see the other, the other part of your question there in front of me too, often because if you have the latter and you have, let's say, people that are either like really scared and skeptical, and or that because they're skeptical, the problem has really gotten big and mushroomed, and they have misconceptions of treatment, but they do need it. They'll even come into treatment, look at you and say, like, I think you're wrong, or I don't want to be here, or this sucks, or I don't believe in what we're doing. You know, like that they'll still be help seeking. So I've seen both. Um, I appreciate that there's more availability of information and that more of evidence-based work has been going on for longer. And I mean, I go back to technology with that question too, because I mean, you just see so much available content as you're on your reels for like an hour a day and all this stuff. We're all a lot of us are doing this. And in reels, I mean, it's like extremely easy for there to be misinformation. And I see it, you know. So yeah, I see, I think I see both. I would say I get both of those people, both of those kinds of people in the clinic.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 20:08

Have you seen um changes in how people are engaging with care? And I know you're also fairly new into your practice founder journey, but um, I guess you were doing training and getting um clinical experience probably at the time of the pandemic, even though some pandemic seems like a long time ago. And I just wondered how how there's been uh how people are changing with their engagement with care pre-pandemic, pandemic, post-pandemic, or in this new virtual first world that we're in.

Dr Michele Bechor: 20:35

Yeah, I mean, I I a lot of my really important training years were like pre-post and pre-p pre-during and post-pandemic, meaning um I did a year, year and a half of my postdoctoral residency, really just beginning to be that solo practitioner with a supervisor, and that was right before 2020. And then for two, three years, I was fully virtual, you know, not even by choice because of the pandemic. So that forced us to change all of our work to virtual format as much as we could. And then I'm seeing everyone, you know, crop out of pandemic lifestyle. Um, change in engagement. I would say that the pandemics uh it support it it provided, like whether it was invited or not, exposure, meaning people had to be virtual. Um, so I saw that because people engaged with that when they had to, kind of regardless of desire, that they're coming out of it saying, Oh, okay, well, I've I've seen some, some proof of concept. Oh, okay, now I can see that it would work. You know, they have people that before, during, and after the pandemic still wanted in person care. And I think there's some qualities that you definitely do get in person. And I was reflecting on this, thinking they're actually just different, like not necessarily one better than the other. They really are just different. I mean, like I could be sitting across from my teenage patient and she's super cold. So I say, here, take a blanket. And she might have a different kind of relationship with me versus if I'm like across from or in, you know, if I'm meeting with her virtually and I can't necessarily see that kind of thing. I can't read the full body, right? If I'm just sort of like a talking head and they're a talking head. Um, that being said, I think a lot more people are embracing technology. I mean, they're a lot more willing to do virtual care even from the beginning, um, even though there are some that tend to think that if you know, if they have an in-person option, it just creates better control over things. And I've seen that that's actually a little bit of a misconception. So um, so people are they're a lot more willing to use, I would say, applications, screens, and sometimes even believe it or not, like AI to enhance the treatment. So, example I have of that was even last night I was working with a woman who has severe hair pulling. And in her future, she really wants to have a full head of hair. So I said, why don't you go into a chat GPT and you know, send a picture of yourself into it and say, can you make me into someone with a full head of hair? And like she can pretty much give it commands to get a picture of herself in her ideal life. And I want her to print that picture out and to use it like post in her room or on the fridge. You know what I mean? The idea would be I want her to create some materials that are easy so it can enhance her motivation and treatment. So sometimes I even find that I and they are are more able to use more powerful tools to even enhance treatment.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 23:29

Thank you. So you're still quite early in the practice founder journey, and I'm obviously it's I think it's great, and it was interesting to hear about practices at different stages, people who've been around for years who just started. What's been surprisingly easy and what's been unexpectedly tough in that journey so far?

Dr Michele Bechor: 23:48

Yeah. Um well, if I say marketing, it kind of answers both parts of the question because I was surprised about how easy it was to put into certain words what my expertise was. Because I'd worked with children for a super long time. I worked with parents for a long time as well, and then I was working with adults individually, just kind of adapting what I was doing with kids to adults, and that was seamless for me actually. Um, mainly because I had to explain things at a really basic level, and suddenly with adults, I didn't have to explain it in such a basic level, at such at such a basic level. Um, so so finding what I was good at and being able to sum it up and present it, I thought wasn't really difficult. At the same time, I'm realizing, okay, I did not go to school for marketing. Like we know I didn't. It's just um like I would say trying to get the word out and explain the utility of my treatment to someone new. Um, and or you know, I would say sometimes even networking, only because I I do I have a primarily virtual practice. Um, I do see people in person as needed. And then there still is like a lot of stuff based on in-person handshaking, networking, things like that. So when I'm a virtual therapist who can work in 43 states, the challenge is then okay, wait, how do I let someone know in a whole other state that I am available? Does that make sense? So, like being so available is great, but then also trying to get the word out to like a zip code in a state that's really far away. I'm like this trying to solve that problem, like on my own. I mean, I I think I can use some services to probably help, but it's more like I want to know how to solve the problem before I just go like I don't know, throw money at it. I want to really understand more about marketing to a degree.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 25:39

And on so you mentioned is that the the the the both the ease and the difficulty? So it's like a double-sided coin, I guess.

Dr Michele Bechor: 25:47

Yeah, I would say so. I mean, it's uh I I've heard of some services that have this. I've talked to some people as well. Um and then there's a recent advent, the for last five years or so in psychology, and it's a compact, it's an agreement among states in the US that if you have a license in one of the states in the agreement, of which there's 43 states slash territories, that you can practice in those other states. And you have to be, of course, really careful about knowing the laws in the states you practice. Um, so I would love to be more widespread and to have a stronger influence. And I think I can, if I really put my mind to it, but um to solve that specific problem of certain people in certain states or you know, really just my target market, like knowing that I'm there, it has been a challenge. You know, and there's another question there about um, you know, taking insurance and things like that. I'm still in the process essentially of deciding what's best for my my population.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 26:45

And I guess as you are starting out, you are probably probably wearing all the hats. So which is what's the kind of what are the biggest time drains for you as somebody who probably wears all the hats and is trying to build things up?

Dr Michele Bechor: 26:58

Um, yeah, that's a great question. Because I'll I'll handle my own admin and I find that really straightforward because it's just so it's me, it's on the easy side, just you know, scheduling, emailing, even though it does take time and I've never really had to be my own admin in my career. Um and then it probably is trying to think of how I'm going to scale. Again, if I've ever worked for someone else, they had to have that problem. Um, sometimes also it's making decisions about whether I'm gonna outsource something because I can. I mean, my own colleagues talk a lot about if they want like an automatic note taker, or if they're gonna hire a marketing team, um, if they're gonna um try and think of another one. I mean, even yeah, marketing is a big one. Over overall, I have to make decisions about how much I'll spend on getting the word out there. So, yeah, the higher level, the higher level problems to solve are really really new, they're exciting. I mean, they don't necessarily make me want to shrink down or anything. I really do enjoy it. But yeah, certainly I would say, oh, I would say another theme to answer your question too is to think, okay, I can try to be really widespread or I can pick a niche. And I've had a difficult time with that, just thinking high level, where's this company gonna go? How's it gonna scale? Um, I'm noticing a lot of colleagues are saying for themselves and for me, like, pick a niche, like just say you're good at like one thing so people can associate your name with it. And I don't know if it's just me being concerned about, you know, losing the effectiveness in other areas, or I'm trying to solve that problem of being known by doing, being known for doing more than one thing. I'm actually there. It's almost like stay tuned, I'll let you know if I could ever be associated with more than just like one niche, even though you know a lot of times when you have, let's say, your doctor colleagues and you're thinking of referral, oh, that person's really good at that one thing, you know? So it's this big issue, sort of like for the psychology of the marketing, you know. Can people perceive me for all the skills I would like? Will that take time? Should I pick one niche or even let's say one brick and mortar location? Uh does it make sense sort of like know for one thing or be in one place? For some reason, I'm like wanting the variety and hesitant to tamp down on one thing.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 29:10

No, I hear you. It's that whole thing about being a jack of all trades and a master of none, that sort of very careful balance. I I completely understand. Um, so with with all the hats and everything that you have to do, as well as the clinical work, how are you balancing the growth with staying close to your clinical values? Because you have to do a lot of things and you have to, there's only so many hours in the day. How do you get that balance?

Dr Michele Bechor: 29:32

Yeah, but you have to know your clinical values a lot. And then with probably every experience I've had, if not training or being a staff psychologist, every single experience, I'm reflecting a lot on what clinical values I have. And I mean, I will not move from one, you know, career move to another without knowing that that next thing is going to reflect my professional values, especially evidence-based work. Um, so I know them, like I really know them. You know what I mean? Um, I'm also trying to balance my values, especially ethical work, with the demand of running a business. Um, so what I'll do a lot of times is I'll have consultants and colleagues, and I'm, you know, asking them pointed questions about whether I should make a certain move because one thing can satisfy the business, but also not violate ethics, but you know, just um misrepresent or um bring into question if I'm if I have that patient's best interest at heart. Like I want that to be much more important than anything else in the business. So um I'm having a lot more questions about whether if I make a certain business move, it's going to compromise the values of those really strong ethics for myself. And um, and so I'm asking a lot of questions with colleagues. I think support is such a big part of this. Like I've expanded my network, certainly. Um, and then I've used a lot of my existing supports to ask a ton of questions. I would say that for probably anyone who would start, just like make sure you have people that you can ask.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 31:04

Here, here on that one. And on that note, I was gonna ask you because burnout is obviously a big thing in the practitioner field and perhaps even more so in um therapy space. So, how do you protect yourself from burnout or become you know become aware of it or manage it?

Dr Michele Bechor: 31:19

Yeah, I was I know historically um I had to decide there were certain hours or days of the week where I just wasn't going to work. I mean, if there were exceptions, perhaps, yes, but I even asked my loved ones to help me remain consistent with again hours and and days I I wouldn't necessarily work. Um, and not necessarily evenings and weekends. Sometimes I could make some kind of exception. Um, and then also historically, I mean, I had set hours, you know, working for an organization. So um I would be very careful, be very mindful of when I would do something outside those hours, just because it could, you know, threaten some personal time. Often I loved just doing the work. I was really enthusiastic. I went over, you know, over the uh the requirements and things like that. Um, then other times when the work was really draining, because clinical work, I mean, the face-to-face work is rewarding and I mean it's a one-on-one conversation. You have to personalize a lot of what you say. Um, it's it's just a lot of peopleing, right? And so yeah, I mean, when I would start to kind of sense it within myself that I didn't have enough, I would use a vacation or I just start to say, okay, look, I'm gonna just do the minimum this week, and that's okay. You know, so I would really just check in with myself quite often and then make sure that it was really easy to get those things that made me feel balanced.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 32:40

And what's what's next for you? Obviously, you're um early in the journey, you've wanted to do lots of great things with the clinic, but do you have any particular plans for the next six, 12 months, whether it be clinically or within the practice?

Dr Michele Bechor: 32:51

I think there are a lot. Um, I I have a big, you know, high-level question for myself right now as a solo practitioner. Um, first of all, how long to remain solo and what kinds of things I see in the business to see if I expand staff or reach. Um, there's also that I've been interested for a very long time in more distribution of information. Like if I talk about parents and the environment, like how to transform that into perhaps um a webinar or something that's, let's say, self-paced with some live coaching. Um, just how to take the information I know and how to make it more widespread in a way that is um, I don't know, received well or um palatable by a larger audience. Like I want to do clinical work and I'm also pretty hesitant to say that that's all I'm going to do. I'm just gonna fill up a caseload and that's it. I want to think outside the clinical picture. Um and because I like project management and I do like teaching, um, I want to do combinations of those, whether it's teaching like formally, you know, a class at a university, or really just like I said, if I have a webinar and I start to um create content for people to use that's cognitive behavioral in nature, then that's me teaching as well. So I have a lot of questions about whether to be clinical for a while as I really feel the solo practitioner life, and or to even from the get-go, not have so many one-on-one clinical uh cases and instead, you know, create more. And that's also another question for let's say profit, right? Because clinical work is often bringing the direct contact is often bringing the profit. Whereas if you work on a presentation, a presentation is more about if people are going to receive it, if people are going to know your name, if it's um marketing, but also information um distribution, if that makes sense. So like it's it's an it's I have to make a lot of decisions about um what hours I'm going to do and like sort of like think of bang for buck kind of things with everything beyond just that one-on-one, uh those one on one kind of cases.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 35:01

Amazing. Well, I wish you all the best with that. And I'd like to thank you so much for appearing on the show today, Michele. It's been a really interesting conversation. Lovely to hear about what you're doing in your space. And I really appreciate how practical and clear your work is, especially around involving families in a way that I think really moves the needle. So thank you very much for joining me.

Dr Michele Bechor: 35:18

My pleasure.