Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:00

So, welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is the podcast that brings together diverse voices shaping the future of whole person care. I'm Dr. Andrew Greenland, and today I'm joined by someone who is doing vital work at the intersection of clinical practice, environmental science, and public education. Dr. Aly Cohen is a board-certified rheumatologist, an integrative medicine specialist, a respected educator, and the founder of the Smart Human Platform, where she bridges the gap between research and practical health strategies. She's also a contributing expert to the World Health Organization's Global Plan on Traditional and Tribal Medicine and the author of Non-Toxic, a guide to living healthily in a chemical world, which is an essential resource for anyone interested in reducing their toxic load. So with that, Aly, I'd like to welcome you to the show and thank you so much for joining me today.

Dr Aly Cohen: 0:49

Well, thank you for reaching out and having me on your program. I'm honored.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 0:54

So maybe we could start at the top. You have such an interesting blend of conventional training and broader environmental advocacy. Can you walk us through how you ended up working at the intersection of rheumatology, integrated medicine, and environmental health?

Dr Aly Cohen: 1:08

Well, it wasn't uh planned, let's put it that way. Um, in brief, I, you know, went the traditional pathway in the US. I went through high school, college, pre-med, um, applied, took tests, got into an internal medicine group, then specialty in rheumatology, which was a particular interest in the immune system back in the day there. And I was out practicing when all of a sudden my dog became very sick. And um, four and a half-year-old Golden Retriever, I had young babies at the time, but he was our firstborn. And he became sick with autoimmune hepatitis, which is not only unusual for dogs, but also this breed. Um, and so my mind went bonkers. And I started, this is 18 years ago, because my son is now 18. Um, but uh, I started looking at what he drank and what he was eating and whether his food was contaminated, whether or not his flea and tick medication was something to be concerned about after we'd put it in on his, you know, between his shoulder blades and kind of walk away, not even wash our hands. Um, so I was really heartbroken and he ended up passing away, but that sent me on a journey of understanding as much as I could about how environment affects human health. It started with my my dog and trying to figure out what expected his health, but it blew up into all of the lack of regulation and lack of testing and requirements that um are really taking place, or I should say not taking place in the US, particularly, on environmental or synthetic chemicals and everything we love and do. Um, and my interest in an integrative medicine really came from the fact that these things were emerging in my brain that diet and water and air are really integrative medicine approaches. And why aren't we thinking about the holistic approach to human health, not just pharmaceutical choices, which are great when you need them? But that is how all of these three areas sort of coalesced. And I didn't know it until um, I guess really right now I'm pulling it all together.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 3:10

Amazing. So tell us a little bit about your clinical practice, you know, your patient-facing work.

Dr Aly Cohen: 3:15

Uh well, I'm a solo practitioner um in Princeton, New Jersey. I do both in-prepatient care and I also do telemedicine, which um I act as a consultant across state, you know, borders because I only have a license for New Jersey, but I do a lot of that consulting work because people have questions about air and water. They have questions about whether their treatment for rheumatologic conditions is what they should be on, or maybe a second opinion is warranted. Um, or is there anything else I can do in addition to medications or instead of medications to help with inflammation and some of the conditions that are associated in rheumatology, but also metabolic diseases, sugars, cholesterol, um, and even mental health. So, you know, it's it's become a real joy that I get to work with such beautiful patients, but I also have created a um a system by which, you know, I can afford to take time to do writing and teaching. I do a lot of academic work for physicians, um, as well as now with high school students, then hopefully moving on to athletes, uh, college and high school athletes.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 4:22

So you're a busy person and you wear lots of hats, which I which I love because I'm a bit the same myself.

Dr Aly Cohen: 4:28

Yeah, it keeps it interesting. You know, medicine by its very nature is very algorithmic. Um, you know, we're taught to go through a system and think very narrowly because that's kind of where the data lies, or at least what's been created, is based on very narrow groups and demographics and sex um differences. So, you know, it allows me to take a life of, you know, 22 years of clinical um medicine and hands-on um, you know, work and apply it to what the science says and apply it to what we're living as real everyday humans. And I think when you combine the reality of all of that, you get much better care for not only myself and my family, I feel that way, but also for people who I believe I treat and I also educate.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 5:15

Thank you. So, where did the um idea for the smart human come from? And what was the moment that made you realize that public really needed this kind of education?

Dr Aly Cohen: 5:24

It's a great question. Thank you so much for asking. Because no one, I've been doing podcasts a long time for you know, promoting the latest book, which was Detoxify not that long ago. I mean, and and really I like the origin stories myself. Um, I was in the shower and I was just kind of taking, you know, like thinking about this 18 years ago. It was sort of a good place to think. And I had really been looking at like the dummies guide and the idiot's guide when I was looking for answers to things. And I thought, why are we putting people down when they want to learn something? Like I felt insulted just grabbing the book uh out of a series, you know. So I said, why don't we call it the smart human to empower people to feel good about learning new information, which is not easy, and certainly change is not easy. The other reason I named it the smart human is I was trained in medical anthropology and general anthropology at college at University of Pennsylvania, was one of my minors, which one of the favorites, favorite courses I've ever taken was understanding human evolution and perspective. How did we walk? How did we, you know, come to you know, break down foods and source foods and all of these things, social interactions. Um, and that really had such a defining um, you know, uh influence on everything I do in modern medicine. Um, and so I felt that if you combined the smart human, the positivity, the anthropology, and also understand that we all bleed red, right? You know, no politics and all of the divisiveness and you know, the things that, you know, we're experiencing certainly here. Um, you know, I like to bring it back to the fact that we're all just humans on a planet. And uh we all have the same, you know, very simplistic human feelings, emotions, and and potential illness. And so I think if we go back and give perspective, that really makes the smart human a really um excellent title for the work I do. Yeah.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 7:21

And so it's a platform. So how do people interface with it? What does it actually look like and how does it sort of help?

Dr Aly Cohen: 7:27

Well, it began as just a very basic Facebook social media page. I mean, back when there was only really Facebook, and it was my way of expressing myself of articles that I liked and shared, and I built up this huge following over a 12-year period. And I will tell you, one of my biggest heartbreaks was that I was hacked and I lost the whole page after 12 years of work. And it took me probably six months to get over that. I'm still pretty much shaken from it. But I will say that when something is meant to be, you keep fighting at it. And I did have to get out of bed and keep going. But it started on Facebook and then I moved it into Instagram, and then I started getting opportunities for speaking, and then I got book deals that I thought were fabulous to be able to share amongst those who wanted to read those. And it just kind of snowballed after that. And what I did feel was very important, and I will share this, is that I never sold any products or endorsed any brands. And I to this day, every day I get, you know, emailed and Instagram messaging and all that about, you know, doing that work. I have always felt in my own heart of hearts, being the daughter of an 86-year-old practicing nephrologist who's, by the way, still practicing and at dialysis right now, that he used to never go to lunches that were sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. It was just always his thing. And it kind of seeped into me. So now, you know, I use all medications and lots of products, but I don't share those because my goal is education not tied to my own promotion of sales for products. I will sell books, I will sell my upcoming health summit that's coming up in April because it costs a lot of money to put together, but I will not um, you know, promote brands and endorsements. And I think that what it does is it cleans up the message, it makes it makes the data, makes the recommendation, I think for myself and my work very legitimate. Um, and so that was a conscious choice that I've made and I've stuck with it. And turns out it seems to be really a good thing when it comes to getting into various uh education platforms.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 9:34

I think it's an excellent thing. I love that integrity because there are so many information sort of sites, services, and platforms out there riddled with sponsored products. And you wonder, well, how much of this is giving, how much of this information is genuine and there isn't a conflict of interest there? And how much of it is, you know, guided by the fact that there's a sponsor.

Dr Aly Cohen: 9:52

So I completely And I have colleagues, you know, not to put my colleagues that my wonderful supportive colleagues down who do endorse products and endorse, you know, but um, and and they do it because maybe they really believe in those products. That's that's great, but it just hasn't been the angle. They're also not trying to get into schools, perhaps, and colleges and athletic departments and train doctors. And so I think depending on what your goals are, you know, you have to make those choices. That was just comfortable for me.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 10:19

Sure. So the smart humans obviously had quite an evolution. What's next for it? Is there another kind of chapter in the in the pipeline for how you want it to evolve?

Dr Aly Cohen: 10:28

Well, it's funny you should ask. I, you know, I thought I had hit all social media, created my own podcast where I can have environmental health researchers, people who don't get a lot of um airtime, believe it or not, the people who write the studies instead of the people who create the headlines on social media. Um, you know, that was a huge lift, and that I'm very proud of. But what happened was a few months ago is I I was listening to the news about Tylenol causing uh autism. And it was sort of the last straw for me as an academic. Um, you know, I really couldn't take it anymore. So I figured, you know what? Instead of fighting the world that exists with their bigger bullhorns than myself with bigger followings and what have you, I'm just gonna create my own health summit. And I'm gonna do something I never thought I would, and I'm gonna do it myself, which is always an interesting challenge. And so now I've put together a beautiful, um, at least the theme for this coming April 25th is going to be women's health. And I brought in 11 of my finest physician colleagues in all their specialties, endocrinology and cardiology, neurology, and a bunch of different groups of people to really talk truth to science. These are clinicians. And I said to them, I don't care if you have slides, I don't care what you have, give your knowledge, your 20 odd, maybe 30 years of experience. I want you to talk turkey to this audience and uh let's let's clear it up and let's make sure that people go home with really good information or you know, live stream it. So it's going to be available to everybody. But now I'm a producer and I never expected to be a producer. Um, but it's a lot of fun, it's a lot of work, and asking for money is not fun, but I'm doing it with the goal that it's going to contribute to the world. So, you know, stay tuned for that if you follow me on The Smart Human.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 12:14

Well, lovely. I mean, by all means, you know, share any links or anything you'd like us to put on the bio page, anything we can do to promote or you know, mention the event, more than happy to do that. Thank you. Um, so you've also been contributing to the WHO's work on traditional and tribal medicine, which is such a unique role for someone from a rheumatology background. Tell us about how that came about and what you're doing and what you're actually trying to do and achieve in that particular space.

Dr Aly Cohen: 12:39

Well, it's, you know, over the years I've met a lot of interesting people, and you don't know who's going to reach out to you for various projects or academic, you know, work, uh, editing, whatever. And one of my colleagues who is a naturopath who was heavily involved in this group, and I had no idea, um, reached out to see if I would want to be what they call champions, um, a very limited group of people who are doing work in education, environmental health, disease prevention, to join a much broader um uh program sponsored by the World Health Organization. But it's actually an international consortium that they're bringing together for a two-year program to show the world's contribution of healing medicine. So, tribal medicine, um, and you know, medicine from all reaches of the world, including integrative, um, you know, plant medicine, herbal medicine, naturopathic, um, traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine. So, and there's so many more, by the way. I'm not even touching the list that humans have been involved with for so long in so many different parts of the world, and the material is so, you know, robust in terms of how these things work that I just couldn't say no. And um I'm happy to lend my expertise, my experience to this conversation. But it is a two-year program. Apparently, it's been well funded by the World Health Organization, and they're really grabbing people from different parts of the world that have some presence, but also have done good work, and I think that combination is going to help amplify the messaging that healing comes from many different areas of human existence and cultures, and that we should try to support all of them or at least learn about them.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 14:29

Amazing. Um, really interesting. Really you have such a wide portfolio, it's really, really fascinating. So getting into the uh nitty-gritty of the environmental and integrated medicine. So you're working with patients with serious, fake serious autoimmune diseases, and also thinking at a systems level about you know chemicals and EMFs and endocrine disruptors. What are the environmental exposures that you worry most about right now?

Dr Aly Cohen: 14:53

Well, I worry about my colored hair that I refuse to not stop coloring. Um, no, I actually very low on my list. But, you know, here's the thing um, you know, there's so many chemicals now that, at least in the US, but really globally. I mean, we're a global world now. No one really sits home in their own four walls and never leaves. We travel, we go, there's lots of manufacturing crossing, all sorts of borders. So, you know, we live in this world where there have, in the least in the US, there's over 300,000 synthetic chemicals that are being used on a routine basis, from food chemicals and food washes to food packaging chemicals, all the way to cleaning products and um, you know, contaminants that are used in industry that often will make their way even into the water systems that are, you know, really have not been updated in the US under the Safe Drinking Water Act since, you know, the 1970s when it was first developed. So we have a real problem with exposures that we don't see, not often taste or feel. And yet they make their way into the human body and the bodies of our kids and our pets. And we can test these chemicals, often even in cord blood, in urine, and even in our bloodstream and in breast milk. We also have microplastic issues that we're now starting to pay a lot of attention to in terms of where they're found and what they potentially can do from you know for harm. So, because there's just such a broad scope and it's a big topic, I really had to think about how to dole good information out in a reasonable, practical way without scaring people away. And again, that was really took years of practice from posting and understanding what resonated and how to edit those posts to say, you know, nothing too scary to make it fun and interesting, practical things that affect us as human beings, like my hair or my kids', you know, lacrosse turf, there's lacrosse players. I'm not gonna tell them not to follow their dreams because of mom's afraid of, you know, the turf chemicals, which I am, but I'm gonna teach them how to go about their day and their their um you know time on those turfs in a more reasonable way and how to clean off. So I decided to say instead of saying all is bad and stay away from this, it's how do we live within the world we created in a very way, reasonable way, but makes a lot of sense and is very cost effective. In fact, most of it is removing stuff in from your life or replacing in a very safe way. And then also adding in the things that make humans, human beings healthy at the cellular level, which offset lots of the harm that may come from these exposures. So bringing in nutrition, bringing in clean filtered drinking water, which is used to clean the human body on a very regular basis. All of those components where you take out the bad that even stimulates the immune system, endocrine system, and then you put in the good. It's like, you know, human fertilizers is actually the chapter that I'm talking to about in this book, that there's certain nutritional components, independently of what we eat and choose from the food system, which is often very variable, but also supplements that have to be chosen properly and safely. So when people do that, you it's remarkable, even from my patients, how much better, whatever their conditions are, do respond. They may not be perfect, they may not be obviously cured, but they may be managed in terms of inflammation, in terms of symptoms. So it's always a great place to think uh anthropologically when it comes to human health and healing. What have we been exposed to for millions of years or not been exposed to? And what have we been giving our bodies for nutrition and through to develop you know uh resilience over all these millions of years? How do we recreate that in a simple way?

Dr Andrew Greenland: 18:40

That's really interesting. And I really do resonate with your point about giving it in bite-sized chunks without trying to scare people because there's so much to consider. Um, you just basically stay in a box the whole of your life if you were that worried. And it's um really important to kind of put things in perspective. So I really like your angle on that.

Dr Aly Cohen: 18:56

Well, you have to also have humor, Andrew. You know, I think to myself how many times I made mistakes, you know, dropping an egg inside my kettle to see if it was nonstick 15 years ago. Um, you know, I I I write about these because to me it was a learning curve and no one was kind of around to help me. And there was groups like Environmental Working Group in the US. And, you know, I learned from a lot of really smart scientists. And, you know, I think that number one, it takes a village not from just the data, but just being secure and that the information is real robust in terms of recommendations I can make. But also, you know, this is a tough subject. And, you know, I always like to break tough subjects with a little humor. I think it makes people more, or I should say, less resistant to change. So it's been useful in the books, how I post, and hopefully, even with this summit coming up, I'll add a little humor.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 19:46

Good, good. So, are you seeing a shift in how patients, or dare I say, even our medical colleagues are thinking about environmental health and root cause medicine?

Dr Aly Cohen: 19:56

Well, I would say that many people, especially healthcare practitioners, live within their own families and they're seeing their own illnesses develop within their um own social structures. So friends and family. The fact of the matter is that, you know, most of us won't change as humans unless we have to, unless we don't look good or we're in pain, or there's some, you know, you know, a threat to our longevity. There's always got to be a reason because most humans are too busy working, stressed, whatever, to really pay attention to a lot of things that can harm us. What I've noticed is that, and this parallels the literature, is that I've been seeing more and more people as patients come through here that are younger than normally would be diagnosed with many autoimmune and immune disorders, even metabolic disorders, and they have no family history. So, what we're talking about is these de novo cases of um, at least from a rheumatologic perspective, many increasing uh you know numbers in uh autoimmune and immune disorders, first of all. So we see 7 to 14 percent of the US population is experiencing at least one um autoimmune disease. So it's it's a really pervasive issue now. And so it's not just about them being patients and us being practitioners, it's really my family, your family, everyone's family is being affected on some level. And I think that's when practitioners start to pay attention, when it affects them right where their heart is. And it would me too, just with the dog, too. So, you know, I think as more and more people get affected by the effects of environment, um, or at least question why they have cancer at a young age or why they developed a new onset de novo case of rheumatoid arthritis, for example, I think they start instinctively to understand the why. And I want people to know the why, but I much rather have them know the what to do because that to me is more empowering and it makes you use your energy for the solutions as a Opposed to thinking all the time about where this happened because it may not be identified.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 22:06

No, I totally get it. I mean, there's no point having information you can't do anything with, it's about the practical, pragmatic things that people can do to help themselves. So completely get that. Um, so going back to the platform, so platform is obviously translating research into action. What's the science saying right now that the average practitioner really needs to know but may not be seeing from your perspective?

Dr Aly Cohen: 22:29

Yeah, you know, I would say it's really hard for practitioners in our system. I came from a multiple different practice structures where I was employed, where I had to see 30, 40 patients a day, 15-minute follow-ups, 30-minute new patients. And then I had to leave that setup after years of learning and seeing volume, of course, to really be able to talk with patients for a full hour. Of course, it's a cash-based practice, right? There's no other model that's going to support that and keep my lights on. But, you know, I feel that the system is a big problem, not the doctors. I think doctors and healthcare providers want this information. They truly want to help their patients, but they're not taught this material in med schools even now. It's hard enough to get a nutrition curriculum in. I think the average is somewhere between maybe five and 12 hours of nutrition training over four years of med school. I mean, that's just nutrition. That's not even about air quality, what we need to know, water quality, what we need to know, what to do about it. You know, the gut microbiome, the gut brain connection, mental health conditions, personal care products, cleaning products, food packaging. I mean, the list goes on and on, but we don't get that. And so doctors are now, believe it or not, they're searching for training programs that teach this and many other areas that they're not getting taught in training programs of any type. So I'm now writing the curriculum or have written or edited the curriculum for four physician training programs in the U.S., very respected. Andrew Wiles Center for Integrative Medicine, University of California Irvine Susan Samueli program, um, and two others. So the idea is that you know, doctors are searching, are interested. Um, it's just they're not getting it through the systems that they already paid for and you know, um trained under. So I think there's a big swath of people who are moving forward to help their patients with these topics so they can feel better prepared.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 24:29

Thank you. So thinking about your various portfolio things that you do from advocacy, writing, teaching, running a practice, what are the things that are working particularly well for you, the things you're most proud of in all that work?

Dr Aly Cohen: 24:43

Ah, making sure my kids don't hate me while I'm raising them and doing all this work. That's always fun. Um, although they are teenagers, so who knows if it's really more hormonal than anything else. Um, but you know, I think that um, you know, this has been a labor of love and a mission, which I never asked for. I would not be doing the work I'm doing, honestly, if my dog had not gotten sick. That I, you know, my dog that I love that died, you know, I'm a I'm not a pet owner, I'm an animal lover. And I think that if that had not happened, um, I really don't know if I would have been motivated for any other reason to dive into this very deep, um, broad, complex area. And because I had no one supporting me early on, because I hadn't learned this material from anyone that I trained under, I was kind of going into it thinking it was all BS. I didn't know what to believe. And I think it was this 16, 18 year journey that has brought me to a place where, you know, I understand I understand so much more about humans, human behavior in my own life as well. And I understand that in order to make a difference health-wise, you have to do it in a reasonable, slow manner that makes sense to you, or else it's never gonna stick. It's like a diet, you know? And so, you know, I don't know, I just keep layering on different projects that fill my soul. And I'm fortunately in a place where I feel like um I don't need any more fake pocketbooks. I don't even need the real ones. I think they're ridiculous. So I'm good. I have a day job and I love what I do and I love teaching. So I think I'm pretty fortunate to be where I'm at.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 26:29

And on the other side of the coin, what are some of the sort of biggest challenges that you've um faced in doing all these various things, or even things that you might be trying to overcome at the moment, or any bottlenecks or things that kind of get you down?

Dr Aly Cohen: 26:41

Well, people can get me down. Um, you know, I had a hit job podcast that really, really just was so brutal. And um, it was a setup, and um, and it got a lot of visibility because of the person who was doing it thought I was probably a hack, but never researched me to understand I've been doing this long, and then this guy had diapers on. So, you know, it was just really one of those moments where you expect everyone to be at least supportive or at least listen. And that was really brutal. Um, getting hacked was really brutal because I know that it must have come from a place that was not looking for my information to be out there, whether it was on nutrition or food industry and big ag, or maybe it was, you know, you know, chemical industry. I don't know. Um, but I will say this, um, Andrew, I have through the book promotion period of about, I don't know, maybe nine months. It was just brutal. And through the aftermath of having met so many people that I'd never heard of that reached out and wanted me to be on their podcast or a speaking engagement, I have met some of the most fabulous people. And it's far outweighed any of the negativity that I've experienced, or else I couldn't go forward. And, you know, you go where the love is. As I said in my, I did a TED talk years ago, and I said, you know, the doctors weren't listening at all the grand rounds that I was bringing this really important data to and and worked hard for. They weren't listening, but my babysitter, who literally said, Oh, you mean my shampoo might be hurting me? I thought, maybe that's the place to go. Maybe these kids want to learn, and that's what the data showed. So I think if you go where the love is, no matter what it is, your passion is, and you go to the people and listen and and and really engage with the people that seem to really support you, um that is where it's fulfilling. And the people who showed up for me, even with nothing in return, I don't forget it. And I think most people don't either, when it's when it's real authentic.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 28:47

So, what are the biggest time drains for you across all the different things that you're involved with? There must be some things that eat your time that you don't necessarily enjoy doing, but have to. What would those things be?

Dr Aly Cohen: 28:58

Well, I do all my own Instagram posts and all my social media myself. I have um, so I'll sit there like this morning. I posted an episode for my podcast, The Smart Human, on women's health. And, you know, it took me probably a good two hours, and I count on that two hours every six weeks when I post. So, you know, those episodes. So, and the reason I do it myself, and I don't love it all the time. I'm tired. I feel like I'm being pulled into something. I'd rather hang out with my dog or my kids or whatever, go to dinner. Um, I think the reason is is because, you know, similar to sort of outsourcing your thoughts um and behaviors and that kind of thing, I felt that that the messaging which can change on one syllable or one word or one connotation is something I wasn't willing to outsource. Um, not only that, it was very expensive to get really, you know, great people who do this once a month, you know, or that you pay them once a month to manage this. I just didn't have that, but nor did I really want that. Um, I wanted the words and messaging to be mine, but also for me to be responsible for that material, which I think is a bigger lift because a lot of this changes over time. And I think um that was just important. So yeah, I'm a control freak, but I'm also someone who tries to compartmentalize when and how my life is sort of run so that I can be there for my kids' lacrosse games and their stuff, and and then say goodbye and dive into the work that needs to be done to keep this material alive.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 30:32

Thank you. I guess media positive media exposure can be really, really helpful. But what would happen if 10,000 people signed up for the smart human tomorrow? You had a sudden a sudden flood of uh media requests, what would happen then?

Dr Aly Cohen: 30:45

You know, I would try to sit back and enjoy the moment. I don't do enough of that actually. I feel like I'm frenetically trying to please and say yes. And um I don't say no often enough, maybe, but I will say that I do want to enjoy the journey and the ride for this process. Um, and I tell this to my kids who don't know what they want to be when they grow up necessarily, but I want them to enjoy the journey because getting where you want to be doesn't always feel fulfilling. You want to always be challenged. And um, you know, I wake up every day with a new opportunity that might be really cool. It may not pan out, but it sounds cool. And I just want to enjoy the moment. So I don't know. I think I would just keep putting my work and stay focused with what my mission is and not try to let my ego get ahead of me because there are moments where you feel completely like wow. And you have to tone it down because you know, and all it all is very fleeting. What's what's really valuable is what you produce, whether it's your kids or it's your, you know, tapestry or ceramics or a career or whatever you choose to create that means something to you, that's sort of what sticks around, not not fleeting support and you know, um, you know, a lot of, you know, I don't know how to explain it, but ego boost, so to speak.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 32:10

Thank you. Um, I think you mentioned earlier, um, obviously you mentioned in the podcast that you do your own podcast. And I think when we spoke before, you mentioned I think you were going to reform, rethink the podcast format. And I just wonder what led to that and what you're aiming for on your podcast.

Dr Aly Cohen: 32:26

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I I can't remember what I might have said, but you know, it's been working. I mean, look, here's the thing. I don't know what's working or not. All and I'll I I just do it. I some people ask me how many views did you know of your last podcast? I'm like, I don't even know how to look into that. I mean, I have someone who runs it, I could ask. But I feel like I just do things for what feels good for me. And if people want to play along and enjoy and and you know, and see what I do, I'm thrilled. But I don't want, I don't want that to define how I frame my next move. I want to be able to do things that make me feel like it's the right thing to do. Um, and I think that's really important. And I'll give you an example, a quick example, actually. I have this summit coming up that I felt very compelled to pull together. Even if I hopefully broke even, I'd be like, that's fine, right? All this work broke even, fine, as long as I don't dig into the kids' college tuition. And um I it's interesting how people said to me, one of them said to me, was very high up in um a big corporation who I had known for years, went to med school with, said to me, Well, you know, I'll give you money and I'll give you a big chunk of money, but you have to have me as a speaker, or my female colleague that's the CEO or CMO of this company to be a speaker. And I said, I don't need your money. Like, I don't want that money because you, you know, and I didn't say this to them, but you know, I'm looking for specialists, clinicians, people who get their hands dirty, people who have a lot to learn from that experience. Um, and I think that versus paying in to get the money quick for, you know, a guy or a gal who, you know, is sort of like um, you know, a great interpreter of information, but doesn't create it themselves. Um, I was looking for something more authentic than that. So I said gracefully, I said no, but maybe in the future we'll see. But it was just one of those moments where I had a choice to take the money and run, make it happen, or really where why did I do this in the first place? And so I I'm very proud that I kind of moved on from that conversation.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 34:40

If you had a magic wand and you could fix one thing across any of the things in your portfolio, you do lots of different things, what would that be?

Dr Aly Cohen: 34:48

Oh, I was thinking I was could change my hair and my my lose a couple pounds. Um, in my in my portfolio, if I could change anything, you know, I wish I just wouldn't have been hit with the Facebook hit because I was so proud of all of those legitimately authentic people that followed. And it's up and running again. It's the smart human on Facebook, but it was one of those moments where, you know, I think I got, I let my guard down and I did too much myself without having someone tell me better information. And that I learned humbly that sometimes you don't know enough about technology, and that's probably why you got hacked. Um, so I think if I were to do it over, or if I have something to do in the future, really to be find someone who's an admin who can help unload some of my work in a way that doesn't make me paranoid that I'm gonna lose everything, and really has the same built-in philosophy of what I'm trying to do. So I'm looking for humans that I've collected along the way that are very bright, but also very much involved with the same drive and mission as my work. Um, that's a hard thing to find, you know, finding really capable, solid integrity laid in people, I think is not always as easy as we might think.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 36:03

And speaking of your mission, just curious to know what's on the cards for you over the next six to 12 months. I know you've got your summit coming up, which is obviously a big focus, but do you have any other big plans over the next year or so?

Dr Aly Cohen: 36:14

Um, so from a career perspective, so I want to do the summit really well. And I just ran around to 10 different places before I sat down for this just to see, you know, who's interested. Um so I want to do that, and I think if I can pull that summit together every year with the vision every year of a different theme, perhaps, but even just good quality, solid people, speakers, and supporters. I love that idea. That to me is going to give me joy every year, even if I don't write a book or I don't get attention or I don't get whatever. That is sustaining. That's creative thing is just sustaining for me. And really, quite frankly, I'm glad I don't have any big projects after that for a while, other than some speaking engagements, because I want to watch all my kids. I have a Division III uh lacrosse player who is just a remarkable person. And I want to watch all his games with his team. And then I have a senior, uh, well, he's a junior now, but his next year will be senior. And he's a lacrosse player. So the spring season is a really busy season as you know, a mom in my household. And I just want to be focused and enjoy those um events all the way through, even through the summer. The summer's off. I need to just chill and then back into it in the fall with more speaking and other educational projects.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 37:31

Well, with that, I'd love to thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a really brilliant conversation, really deep and personal insights into so many things. And I know so many of our listeners are going to come away from this with their eyes opened as to what's really in the environment and how it connects with long term health. So thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it.

Dr Aly Cohen: 37:49

Oh, it's my pleasure, Andrew. Thank you for such lovely questions and for reaching out. I appreciate it.

Dr Andrew Greenland: 37:54

Thank you.