Welcome And Guest Introduction

Dr Andrew Greenland 0:00

Welcome to Voices in Health and Wellness. This is the podcast where we speak with healthcare founders, clinic owners, and practitioners about the realities of delivering great care while building sustainable, impactful practices. This show is designed for practitioners by practitioners. We explore clinical approaches, patient outcomes, practice growth, leadership, and the often overlooked challenges of running a healthcare business. Today's guest is Lynne Douglas, founder of Healthy Minds for You. Lynne is an experienced mental health professional who's transitioned from a background in mental health, nursing and CBT into specialising in EMDR therapy. To Healthy Minds for You, she helps individuals work through trauma and its long-term effects, with a particular interest in supporting those experiencing traumatic grief, including family members caring for loved ones without Sheimus disease. Her work is rooted in helping people move beyond symptom management and addressing the underlying causes of emotional distress, a philosophy that resonates strongly across many areas of modern healthcare. So with that, Lynne, I'd love to welcome you to the show and thank you very much indeed for joining me today.

Lynne Douglas 1:03

It's lovely to be here. Thank you for asking.

Dr Andrew Greenland 1:06

So can

From Nursing To Private Practice

Dr Andrew Greenland 1:07

we talk a little bit about your background and your story? Tell us a little bit about your background and how you first entered the mental health field.

Lynne Douglas 1:14

Yeah, also that was back in 1996. Um and I applied for mental health nursing. So that was well, it wasn't mental health nursing, it was a whole, it was general nursing then, right? And then halfway through, I had um an experience in um the mental health services, and I thought that's really interesting, just something, and not quite sure what it was. Something took my interest, and from then I transitioned over to mental health nursing and and completed that and was a mental health nurse on uh a psychiatric ward for for a number of years and also did mental health group work and working on day services. Um, but I knew there was something that that was missing, you know, that I wanted to I wanted to help people more. I felt a bit like I was firefighting, I was managing situations more than helping, really. So um then I did CBT. So I came across CBT and thought, brilliant, sounds amazing. So I did CBT training and worked with that for a while and worked in the NHS for a number of years in the IAP services, and I think it was when you know when family came along that I then reduced NHS and started to do a little bit of private practice, um, purely because it works a little bit better around my family life, and that went on for quite a number of years, and then in 2016, actually, the service I was working for closed down, and I was made redundant from the NHS at that point, and that um I guess that gave me the nudge really, and a kick up the backside to okay, let's make this private practice work, and so moved into private practice. I had completed my EMDR training by then. Um I was trained while I was in the IELTS service, um, so that continued throughout, and so it's built up from me working from home to me then having an office to then COVID hit, and I let my office go and we moved online, and and now we work totally online at Healthy Minds for You, and I have a wonderful virtual assistant that helps me, Gemma, she's amazing, and she she is on top of all my emails and things like that. Absolutely fantastic, and I have a couple of associate therapists that that help and do some work for me now.

Dr Andrew Greenland 4:00

Fantastic.

How Online EMDR Works

Dr Andrew Greenland 4:01

So, um healthy minds for you then, 2026. What does the model look like from a patient perspective? You know, working purely online, how does it kind of work out?

Lynne Douglas 4:11

Um well, we we use um a platform called Bilateral Base, and that's purely for the provision of EMDR. And it's it's really not much different besides you're in the comfort of your own home. In a lot of ways, it is so much better because you can have your home at the temperature you want it, you can have your cup of tea as you like it, or your drinks and whatever comforting things around you as you want. All we need is good internet connection and a quiet private space to do this work in. So for many people, it's great because also afterwards, after therapy, often it's quite tiring, and people need to look after themselves. There's no drive home, they're already home, right? So it takes away a lot of problems of people accessing therapy, getting to the therapy um rooms and then getting home after therapy. Um, so EMDR online, it's it's just been a massive, massive learning for me, and I don't think we ever knew just how well it could work until COVID came, and then everybody had to start using it really, and it's just been amazing. So it's not really much different. We use I use headphones uh purely because I find the audio better, and sometimes there's noises outside of my therapy my room here that it really cancels out. So I find that much more actually much better than in person in a way, because you're not distracted by outside noises, you really are in connection with the person you're working with.

Dr Andrew Greenland 6:06

Thank you. So I guess COVID precipitated that shift. I mean, you had to do it, you had to do this because of COVID, and obviously the whole world has changed. But how well do the patients um embrace working online? Obviously, they're probably used to it now because it's been going for a number of years, but what was it like initially? And do you still get patients that want to work in person? And what happens to them?

Lynne Douglas 6:29

Yeah, so um, yes and yes. Um, so it it was quite, I think, a major move for all of us. I think we're all all a bit anxious about working online to start with. I know I was, and thinking, um as it happened, how my supervision, uh, my EMDR supervision was already online, so I was used to using Zoom at the time. So I think that helped me a little bit move online to work with people. Um, and people, yeah, I think they took to it okay. I think they did. I think it all took us a little bit of settling in, um more instruction of where they need to be, what they may need. Um yes, I do get asked sometimes for in-person, and I have colleagues that do in-person work, and I would refer people on to them. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Andrew Greenland 7:33

Thank

Why EMDR Over CBT

Dr Andrew Greenland 7:34

you. You so you mentioned um in passing before that you began using CBT approaches early on in your career and then moved over to EMDR. Was there anything that prompted that shift, or was it just something you discovered, you know, in your kind of journey to learn more and bring on practices to help patients?

Lynne Douglas 7:53

Yeah, and and I still do use a lot of the CBT within the practice, you know, a lot of the understanding of the disorders of maybe anxiety and things like that will bring those conversations in of what maybe keeps keeps it going, what's what's managing, what's driving all this. Um, but EMDR, it just to say, it it's it's a bit like that advert, isn't it? For for the alcohol, it get it reaches places or the beers struggle to reach. Right. Do you remember? I I don't know what what's just come to mind there, where that came from, but um it seems to get really to the root of problems much quicker than I found CBT2. Um I just took took a love to it. I just thought in some instances it's a little bit like magic. In some instances, now it can take a lot longer, it's not a quick fix by all means for everybody, but in some instances it can be really quickly, um it can make massive changes quickly, and people get back to living their life much sooner, I think, than um when I was using CBT.

Dr Andrew Greenland 9:14

Thank you. I suppose to be fair to listeners, we ought to explain what EMDR is. And how would you how are you just how would you describe it and how do you tell patients what it is before you embark on it with it?

Lynne Douglas 9:24

So EMDR, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's a very long word, isn't it? And so I I don't I like simple things, right? I don't like going into lots of technical words, you know, talking about um lots of things to do with the brain and how that might work. So I'm going to use an analogy to try and explain, and this is how I explain it to my clients. So if if you can imagine, if you've got a graze or a scratch on your arm, right, our bodies will naturally work towards healing. Even if we do nothing, we've got a natural healing process. It might bleed a bit, might it will scab over, it will start to heal underneath, it might be itchy and really irritable while it's healing, but eventually the scab comes off and it's healed, right? So our body naturally works towards healing, but sometimes something gets in the way of the natural healing process. So, for example, it may have grit in it, something's in it, it's it's stopping that healing process, it's starting to get an infection. So maybe it needs a washout. Now, the washout is an intervention, it's not going to make it better, but it takes away what is stopping the natural healing process. So it might need it might need antibiotics, right? If there's an infection, but again, the antibiotics aren't healing the wound, they take away the infection, which allows the wound to then continue to heal, right? So, in that sense, I want to think about the mind in the sense that something has got in the way of the natural healing process. And what EMDR is, EMDR is like that intervention that comes in and it takes away what's blocking, what's what's sticking, and it removes that, helping the brain to then continue to heal itself. Right? So EMDR isn't the fix, EMDR is the intervention that you use to take away what's stopping the natural healing process from trauma. Did that make sense or didn't it?

Dr Andrew Greenland 11:48

Oh, did I love the analogy? I can tell you use that well with your patients. Um, it's probably resonates very well. So thank you for that.

Trauma Beyond PTSD

Dr Andrew Greenland 11:57

Um, one thing I found interesting was your view that trauma isn't limited to PTSD diagnosis. Can you expand a bit on that for our listeners?

Lynne Douglas 12:04

Yeah, yeah. Um originally it was it it did come about purely for PTSD, and it's in our skylines as a treatment for PTSD, but it's used for so much more, and I think when we look at other disorders, most of those things have a trauma base, maybe wouldn't fit the criteria of PTSD, but there's a trauma base, right? So, um, for example, um, often when we're working with people with anxiety or lack of self-confidence, often that goes right back to school years, you know, under the age of eight or ten, right? There's a real root, and um in the NDR, what we want to do, we want to get to the root cause of what's driving the problem now. And that could without that root, it's a little bit like mowing your lawn, right? You can keep mowing it and mowing it and mowing it, but it will eventually grow back, and I think that's why a lot of people they go and have some therapy and they think, yeah, it was great at the time, but I've still got the same problem, you know. Maybe months down the line, I've still got the same problem. It's grown back, that grass has grown because you've just been mowing the grass, right? So in EMDR, we go right back to the root and we pull it out. We pull it out from the root so it can no longer grow back. I love my analogies. You might like to do that. No, I do, I do.

Dr Andrew Greenland 13:46

You obviously have to work out what works when you're speaking to patients. So you've obviously got analogies that really, really work. So, how often do you see anxiety, low mood, or other challenges that are rooted and unresolved trauma? Because you said it happens a lot. Just give us some sense of really how common it really is.

Lynne Douglas 14:00

Oh my goodness. Um well, I think even if somebody comes with a um a diagnosis of PTSD, um, it's affecting their sleep, they're having intrusive thoughts, they're they're they're much more on higher the system's on high alert, so that there's already anxiety, right? So so it very often goes together, anxiety, very often low mood because they've not been sleeping for such a long time. Um also I do have people coming in that anxiety is their main problem, and their world in the present has got smaller and smaller and smaller because their fears grown bigger and bigger and bigger, and sometimes people just don't know why. And you know, they used to just be scared of one thing and now they're scared of virtually everything. How does that happen? You know, it's like it spreads, right? And that's often because we need to get back to the root. Where did this start? Because there's a root driving all these anxieties in the present. Once we can get back to that root, as we've said before, you know, we're not mowing it, we're not giving them lots of resources, and I think um in in CBT was working with a lot of people in the present only and giving them lots of management tools and resources, and I see that as that is that's mowing the lawn. Whilst other people are using them, it's keeping the grass nicely, right? But when they want to just go back to the usual everyday life, grass grows back and hence they have the same problems again. But I it's I don't think I I'm trying to think of someone I've that's come through for therapy that actually hasn't had anxiety or some element of depression, maybe wouldn't fit diagnosis of, but it's there. I think it's there all the time to some degree.

Dr Andrew Greenland 16:08

Right. So are there any um common misconceptions that people have about trauma therapy in your experience?

Lynne Douglas 16:16

Um that's a good question. I think one of the biggest things is it has to be a big trauma. They think of trauma as in tsunamis, you know, people going to war, um, veterans maybe coming back from war zones. Um and it that isn't necessarily so. We can have smaller traumas, lots of smaller traumas throughout our life that can really impact us today, you know, and that be might be, you know, those different elements of bullying through school years. You know, we might not think about it as a big trauma now, but actually when we were a kid, it was massive. Yeah. Um, and so I think that's one of the main misconceptions about trauma is that people assume it's a big trauma, but actually there's lots of smaller traumas throughout our lives that we uh can dismiss as being significant.

Misconceptions About Trauma

Dr Andrew Greenland 17:24

During our um previous conversation, you spoke about the experience of family members caring for loved ones with Alzheimer's. Um could you tell us a bit more about that work that you do?

Lynne Douglas 17:34

Um well it's not I suppose that's some some of that's from a personal thing as well, because we've had people in the family with Alzheimer's, and um I've worked with a few people that have come in um for some grief work with that, and it's it's interesting because when you have a loved one with Alzheimer's, you kind of grieve, you've lost them already, and they're still here, and that can be one of the hardest things because it's like you you don't just grieve once, you lose a part of them and you grieve, you lose another part of them and you grieve, you lose another part, and you you grieve over and over and over again, and each though each of those times is quite is traumatic in itself, and I think from having family members that have suffered from that, having that personal kind of experience, it just brings my interest in helping people that are going through and suffering because it is it is a trauma, it's really tough, it really is. Not just on the it's not just on the person that is going through it, you know, and that's tough on the carers that see it and grieve and grieve and grieve. It's really difficult.

Dr Andrew Greenland 19:11

I mean, do you feel enough attention is given to the emotional well-being of carers from what you see?

Lynne Douglas 19:22

Good question. I don't think there's ever enough support for carers. No, I really don't. Um will there ever be enough support for carers in the future? Wow, probably not. I and I think as well, what what we often find for carers is that they tend to be looking after other people and neglect their own health and well-being. Um so they often don't ask for the help that they need either because their focus isn't on themselves, it's for looking after others. So you kind of got a bit of a catch-22 there. You've got the people that do need it, but actually don't recognise it. People that do recognise it and don't ask for help because they're too busy caring for someone else. Um, and then of course, it's where do you find all that help? It's it's tough. I don't think I've got an answer for you there, Andrew, as to enough help for carers.

Dr Andrew Greenland 20:34

Well, you kind

Carers And Alzheimer’s Grief

Dr Andrew Greenland 20:35

of alluded to it. I mean, it's it's probably much overlooked, and um will we ever get enough? I don't know. I mean, probably not if I'm being honest, but yeah. So um on the subject of grief, I mean, how does traumatic grief differ from what many people think of as conventional grief?

Lynne Douglas 20:54

So we all grieve, right? We all go through grief. If you love someone, you will hurt when they're gone, right? And and that's a given. And the more you love someone, the more hurt you'll feel when they've gone. But just like you know, I've talked before about that analogy of healing, most of the time we'll tend to we'll talk to people, we'll get support from people, um, and we will go through that grieving process naturally, and our brain will come to some resolve. You will never, I think, you will never get totally over it, right? Because something down the line or oh remind you of a loved one that you lost, and suddenly you'll be in tears again, like a bit of a wave hitting you. But generally, you are able to get on with life, right? Traumatic grief, if we go back to that analogy. Is that it's got stuck. And sometimes it can be on that loop. And often there's there's beliefs in there, like I should have done more, I should have been better at, um, should have been there, you know, and and sometimes a lot of these beliefs keep people trapped in a cycle of grief and guilt and you know, all those emotions that go along with grief. So traumatic grief is literally something that's getting in the way again of our natural grieving process and just keeping it in that loop, just keeping us grieving, and and people can be stuck for for years not really overcoming grief. And again, EMDR I found is is amazing for getting to where it needs to go and unsticking what's got stuck, right? And of course, that that can be uncomfortable, right? Because then the natural healing process continues to take place, and that might mean releasing lots of emotion and lots of crying, lots of tears, yeah. But then people feel so much lighter by the end of it. It's like a whole weight that people are able to release and let go of. Can be amazing, and I think some of the um to see people from when they start therapy, often to when they finish, they can often they look like different people, and it's hard to really explain that. That they they really look like a different person coming to see me, and yeah, it's hard to believe when you've not seen that yourself. But I guess I have to sometimes I have to lend a bit of my belief to clients that come, you know. I'll lend it out there until they've got the belief themselves that it works.

Resilience And Therapist Self-Care

Dr Andrew Greenland 24:15

Thank you. So, what have all these experiences taught you about resilience from all the work that you do with with the clients that you see?

Lynne Douglas 24:22

Oh, blame me. So, yeah, crikey as therapists, don't we need some resilience? And I think there's been times in my life where I've not listened to to what's going on for me, and now I think probably most therapists you can you talk to will say at some point in their life they've been burnt out, they've been um emotionally exhausted from the work that they're doing, and they've not spent enough time on themselves. Because if we think about carers, we're that's kind of what we're doing, aren't we? We're we're caring for other people, we're helping people overcome their problems. And um thing that I'm really, really more aware of now is is the importance of looking after myself. Now I've got two teenagers, both neurodiverse. Um, so working for myself online as well, has been working really well around my family. Um, having hobbies, having things, doing things for fun, taking your mind away from your work is really, really important to be doing and giving you that resilience. And and I think knowing that you can overcome, and also ask for help yourself as a therapist, right? I think that's a tough call, you know. I actually bringing that in. Therapists asking for therapy because we're human at the end of the day, and we all struggle at some points in our life, and that can be a really hard thing because as therapists, we kind of know a lot of information. We know that, and we kind of know what we should do, and and how the things that would help. You know, when you're going through your own stuff and your own difficulties in life and your own traumas, you can't think straight. You need someone else to help you through that process, and I think that's a really good shout out for therapists as well out there that know actually they could do with some therapy themselves to take that leap and jump and actually and go do it because you're really important. Yeah.

Dr Andrew Greenland 26:38

Thank

Scaling A Practice Without Burnout

Dr Andrew Greenland 26:39

you. So switching gears a little bit to the kind of the business side of things, and obviously, you've built your um healthy minds for you practice, it's an online model. You've mentioned you've got associates you brought on board, and lots of things going well. But what are the maybe some of the challenges or bottlenecks that are most impactful for you right now in the business?

Lynne Douglas 26:58

Um well, I'm working my way through the challenges. I think one of the challenges was keeping on top of the admin um side of things. Um, hence I I now have a uh a VA, a virtual assistant, and she's absolutely brilliant. I must have thought about that for two years before I took the leap. Um, because of course it's it's it's a financial outcome, but actually for my own mental health and well-being, it's amazing, right? And then it gets frees up time for me to see clients and not get hung up on checking my emails all the time and just knowing that somebody is is going to be um on top of things, right? And the amount of time I've I admit to checking my emails at silly o'clock at night, right? It helps me not do that, and I think trying to have that work-life balance is probably one of the hardest things. Um working for yourself in private practice is is amazing, it's been brilliant for me, and it will be amazing for lots of other people that take that step. Um, but there's other things you have to think about. There's no sick pay, there's no holiday pay, um, there's no pension unless you pay it into one yourself, right? A private pension. And and you have to think, you have to factor all of this in into your business, and you've got to make it work somehow. It's a lot to think about. So I always said before, I'm not business minded, I'm a therapist, right? I'm not I'm not business minded. How do I do this? And and it's been a lot of trial and error, it's been a lot of learning, it's been a lot of money wasting in some areas. Um, and I'm still learning. I'm still learning now at the moment. I've got a business coach, so um, I'm part of um a fearless crew um with Robin Wade. So um again, it's kind of moving business on and learning new things all the time. Um, and yeah, I think that's the only way, isn't it? To just one step in front of the other and keep moving forward and growing and learning, always learning.

Dr Andrew Greenland 29:30

Amazing. I was gonna ask you what's your biggest time drain right now, but it sounds like your VA may have solved that problem, or is there things that are still a time drain for you in your world?

Lynne Douglas 29:40

Um I think such still a time drain. Hmm. You see, I'm thinking of things, but they're not a time, they're not a time drain, I think. Actually, they're quite important, you know, it's freeing up time, time to read, time to listen to audiobooks, time to time to meditate. And that's something that for health and well-being I do more of now, is is meditation and just sitting with my own thoughts and calming my own system. Um, what's a drain? I can't think of anything now, actually. What's still a drain? I think maybe social media, maybe maybe that's maybe that's the drain. Um, and maybe that's because it's something I don't know a great lot about, social media, and it's something I'm just learning. So I would say that's quite a drain on me. That'll be mine.

Dr Andrew Greenland 30:42

Okay. Um, I guess every clinic wants to grow um and have more patients. But what happened, what would happen to you if demand doubled overnight? Would anything break? And hopefully not you, but what would happen if you had a massive surge in demand tomorrow?

Lynne Douglas 30:57

Um that's a good question. I haven't really thought about that. Give me a moment. Well, I like to think I would I would call on other associates that I know because part of my work is I supervise other EMDR therapists to who are working towards their accreditation. So probably 60 to 80 percent of my work is actually supervision, and so from that I know lots of other therapists that are really good at what they do, that have a variety of backgrounds and knowledge. Um, and I I could well call on some of those if needed. Yeah, that would be my answer.

Dr Andrew Greenland 31:50

Very good. And um finally, where would you like the practice to be in the next six to twelve months? Where do you want to see healthy minds for you headed?

Lynne Douglas 31:59

Well, I think maybe you've just just mentioned it actually. Doubling overnight would be great, wouldn't it? Maybe overnight, maybe not so overnight, but yeah, just just growing and having more therapies, and and because we're providing um EMDR therapy, and I I'm able to supervise the practice as well. So I I know that they're good at what they do, and I think that gives me comfort that the therapists that are doing associate work for me, I know them, I know them personally through years of supervision, and I know what they can do, their background. So, for example, if I get a referral in and I think actually one of my associates will suit them down to a T, you know, I've got somebody that their background is in eating disorders, that's not my speciality. I would absolutely say this is the one to work with you, you know, because they've got this speciality to work with. Um so yeah, I'm hoping it will grow in two ways, really, because I'm looking at changing the way often in private practice you sell by the hour therapy. I would have moved to what outcome do you want? What's the outcome? And let's let's start to work towards the outcome and stop selling therapy by the hour, because you know what, it can go on for years and and never end, and I think it's not really helpful. So, what do you want to work on now? What ending do you want? Let's look at that outcome and let's work towards it so you've got a clear idea of where you are now and where you're going. I think that would be that's that's going to be really useful for people. Um, and I think there was something else I was going to say there, but my menopausal brain has just disappeared, it's just gone. I'm hoping there's people out there that will really connect with that because it happens often.

Dr Andrew Greenland 34:10

No

Closing Reflections And Thanks

Dr Andrew Greenland 34:11

worries, no. Then this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today. I think what really stands out is your commitment to addressing the root causes rather than simply managing the symptoms. Whether we're talking about trauma or anxiety, grief, supporting caregivers seems to be a consistent theme of helping people to understand and process what's really underneath their struggles. So thank you very much for sharing and giving us that valuable insight. And yeah, I wish you all the best with your practice and future growth.

Lynne Douglas 34:36

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure to be here.