Welcome And Guest Background

Dr Andrew Greenland 0:00

So, welcome back to another episode of Voices in Health and Wellness. Today's guest has built a medical career that challenges some of the conventional ideas about what success in private medicine is supposed to look like. Dr. Mark Rosenberg is a board-certified emergency medicine physician who has led an emergency department at Walter Reed, spent decades involved with the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, and developed expertise across longevity medicine, integrative oncology, and medical innovation. What's particularly interesting about Mark's story is that he hasn't pursued the conventional model of building the biggest practice possible. He's deliberately kept his clinical work relatively low volume, giving himself the ability to spend more time with patients while pursuing research, innovation, and other ventures alongside medicine. So today we're going to explore that journey, the choices behind it, the challenges that come with it, and what Mark has learned about building a medical career around impact rather than simply scale. So, Mark, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr Mark Rosenberg 0:55

Thank you for having me.

Dr Andrew Greenland 0:57

So,

From Emergency Medicine To Longevity

Dr Andrew Greenland 0:58

Mark, you've had a career that's gone in several directions that I imagine you probably couldn't have predicted from the outset. So, if we go right back, how would you describe your journey that's taken you from emergency medicine to the work that you're currently doing today?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 1:10

So it's interesting. I I think um you and I share uh the same specialty initially, anyway. And um I think many of many emergency physicians, we become, you know, jack of all trades, master of none. We know we know something about everything. And I think many emergency physicians, after a while, start looking in other directions. And so um while I was, you know, I was very happy doing academic emergency medicine and teaching residents. Uh, when I moved to Florida uh in the States in 1996, uh I heard about an academy called the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine. And to be honest, at the time, it was uh there was no science to it, it was all really um, you know, um um opinions is what it was, but not science. And um, so uh, but I was intrigued, and I I actually I became an advisor to them and helped bring in um well-renowned speakers, you know, doctors from all over. And um I I got hooked because um one of the issues that we we always hear in the United States, we don't do health care, we do sick care. So we are really good uh at handling crises. But when you look at the uh mean lifespan in the United States, it's very clear that we don't do health care, we don't promote wellness. Um right now the the mean lifespan in the United States is around 77 years. Um in Cuba, they live three years longer than we do. Um I have had conversations uh with our uh with the RFK uh assistants, and uh they are aware that we are the sickest, wealthiest nation in the world. So um this I really got intrigued by um by saying, hey, can we improve health care? Can we decrease the incidence of illness and age-related disease? So that's where why I went that way.

His Mother’s Cancer Changes Everything

Dr Mark Rosenberg 3:28

And then um, uh, not fortuitous, that's for sure. I was still working some shifts in the emergency department in 2004, and my mom walked in. My mom usually would call me, but she walked in and I said, What's going on? She said, I just rushed over here because I'm having this strange chest pain. And so I started with, of course, a uh a PA and lateral chest x-ray, and I see a large lung mass, and that leads to CT chest abdomen pelvis, and she's got mets to liver, spleen, bilateral, adrenal glands, and left hip. And and I said to myself, Oh my god. Um, so I of course I dug into the literature and and um I brought my mom to Philadelphia. I went to University of Pennsylvania undergrad, and they said, Look, Mark, you're a doctor. So here's the deal. If you do chemotherapy, she may live six months. If you don't do anything, she may live four months, maybe six months. And I was blown away that that's what we've got. And of course, this is before the time where we developed some targeted drugs, like specifically against an alkymutation or EGFR. Um, but I I was, of course, uh dismayed. And so I said, you know, I had done research in undergrad and I was actually thinking about just being a PhD instead of an MD or an MD PhD. And so I said, I'm gonna start digging into the literature, and and I ended up um starting a pharmaceutical company um and and brought a drug to Harvard to target cancer stem cells. Uh, most recently, I got awarded a patent for developing an extracorporeal filter that eliminates circulating tumor clusters. So, this is a direction I didn't want to go in, I had no interest and never knew I was going in that direction. But life takes us to places that we don't know we're going.

Leadership Lessons From Walter Reed

Dr Andrew Greenland 5:24

For sure. And thank you for sharing that. It's really, really helpful context and hearing about your start and move move in different directions. But let's look at what you know, the starting point was emergency medicine, and you were running an emergency department at Walter Reed. What did that part of your career teach you about medicine and leadership at that point of your career?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 5:42

So, um, you know, as far as leadership, it's actually both army because the army put me through med school. So it's the leadership with uh army as well as um uh you know running the the emergency department. And um, you know, of course, that's where I learned a lot about leadership because the whole team, and when I say the whole team, it's not just the other doctors and the nurses, it's the medics, uh, and um, and of course, other departments at Walter Reed would come to me because we had to actually set up mash tents for deployment. And so it taught me a lot about leadership, and and everybody leads differently. And um uh I think there's an innate part. Um I I will be completely transparent. You don't want me being the CEO of a big company, um, and and I say that because you know, I I although I I like to think I use my my brain a lot, I use my heart a lot also. And I nobody would ever call me a tough leader because I'm not. And every once in a while I had to do things that hurt me to let somebody go. Um, but um, I think it really shaped the leader that I became. And and um and again, I I think as I've matured, I'm you know, I'm 66 years old now, I think rather than becoming harder and tougher of a leader, I'm more forgiving, more loving. And and I actually, while some people may not like the way I lead, I like it, and and that's what I will continue to do.

Dr Andrew Greenland 7:31

Thank you. So you obviously talked about your mother's diagnosis a few moments ago, and I'm guessing that was the point or which it changed the direction of your career. But you know, you were in emergency medicine, and then we've suddenly gone into oncology. So what was the moment when you decided that oncology was like your new direction in your career? Was it that diagnosis? And how did it kind of shape up after that point?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 7:53

It was exactly that. I mean, that so after that diagnosis was made, um, and this is before AI, of course, this is 2004. Um, I I spent hours. I mean, I think I probably slept a couple hours a night, and I I spent, you know, three weeks just exhausting the literature, and then I presented my mom with about 400 pages of options. And um, and um, and but I started becoming fascinated. You know, I I mean, cancer is the uh, you know, uh just obviously a devastating disease. And to this day, you know, I and I tell my patients this, we haven't come that far. Let's go back uh a thousand years ago. If they saw cancer, they would cut it out. And if they cut it out before it spread, then you won the game, they're free. But of course, most of the time we don't know if it spread, and certainly they didn't have the technology back then. So it so if it spread, then they they they eventually succumbed to the disease. Fast forward to 2026. If it has spread, the best we can do is utilize some of our modalities and drugs to try to buy some more time, but they're still going to succumb to the disease. And I was aware of that when I did my research in 2004, and I started studying uh originally what's called the Warburg effect, uh, which is the glycolytic nature of cancer. And I was fascinated. It's like, you know, cancer is terrible, but it's also it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating, and it's like, you know, who's the genius who's gonna figure this out? So it just sucked me in. As a matter of fact, I I had a uh uh sort of he became a mentor, he was a board-certified hematologist, oncologist, and we used to lecture together. And um, I ended up becoming the the program director for the first and only uh uh integrative cancer fellowship in the country, and he would lecture with me and he said, Mark, uh, and he was 20 years older than me, he said, I just want to warn you, this will suck you in. It's like a rabbit hole, and you're going to you're gonna constantly research and think you've got something in, it'll just suck you in and you won't be able to get out. And he was right. Um, you know, you can't rest until you figure this out. And you know, this is not a question you asked, but do I think we'll ever have a cure for cancer? And the answer is no, I don't. Um, I think that our best hope is to be able to manage it hopefully indefinitely, so individuals die of a different disease. Uh, but we're certainly not there yet.

Why He Keeps Practice Low-Volume

Dr Andrew Greenland 10:56

Thank you. So, one of the things I found particularly interesting when we first spoke was your approach to private practice. There's often this assumption that success means more patients, hiring more people, opening more locations, and continually increasing revenue. But you've consciously done something a little bit different. And it's very interesting to know why you deliberately chose not to build a high-volume medical practice like everybody tells us that we probably should do. Sure.

Dr Mark Rosenberg 11:20

You know, I think it's because I have other areas of interest. Um, you know, initially I said um I've got a lot of things going on. So I'm not going to see 30 patients a day. And let me back up a little bit. As you, at least certainly in the States, um, which doctors make the most money? Which are the most profitable from a business standpoint? Well, it's doctors that do procedures, like surgeons. And then you don't have to be a surgeon, but you can do procedures, and that's where you make your money. And if you are not doing procedures, let's say you're a standard internal medicine doctor, well, you have to make your money on volume. And and when we say volume, I mean I'm talking 25 to 30 patients, you know, in uh, you know, seven-hour working day, you know, figure you get an hour off for lunch. And um, and I realized that I can't do good medicine that way. Uh I sit with every patient for an hour. And so I I told myself, I, you know, I'm either going to practice medicine the way I think it needs to be practiced, or I'm not going to practice anymore. And um, and um certainly I have you know a lot of people who, a lot of patients who have been with me for you know over 20 years. And um, and so I don't make, you know, I make an okay living from my practice, but it's subsidized by my other projects. Um, and I I I don't regret that at all. Now, in the states, there's a way to do what I'm doing and make really make good money, like you were doing procedures, and that's the concept of concierge medicine. And so, concierge medicine, at least in this country, the doctors say, look, I'm only gonna take so many patients, you know, maybe I'll cap it at 50 or 75 patients. That's all, but I'm gonna charge a yearly fee. In addition to the charges that you'll get when you see me in my practice, there's gonna be an upfront yearly fee, uh, anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000. To I I found out there are some doctors in Palm Beach charging $100,000 a year. Now, you do the math, you get 50 patients, uh, that that can make it work. So I think um now, what have I done? Um, I I feel that there are a lot of patients that need me and they don't have a lot of money. So sometimes I charge a concierge fee and sometimes I waive it, sometimes I cut it in half because again, I'm not for sustaining uh financially, sustaining myself, I'm not relying solely on the income from the practice.

Dr Andrew Greenland 14:16

Got it. So obviously, your prime driver is being allowed to have the time to spend with patients, which is so important. But are there any other advantages to keeping the practice of that size and anything that it allows you to do clinically by having that sort of um model?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 14:29

Yeah, I think the you know, a big advantage is I I think there's less mistakes. I mean, you know, for example, in the emergency department, when you get slammed and you're juggling, I remember those days, juggling 10 to 12 patients at a time, you know, I mean, the human brain, or at least my human brain, can only do so much. And you can start making mistakes. When I get, um, I'm sure I make mistakes that I'm not aware of, but I think they're really very few. Uh, because I spend an hour with each patient, and um um I I go over everything with a fine-tooth comb. So I really like um the way that that that it the way I'm practicing.

Dr Andrew Greenland 15:13

For sure. So obviously, um having a model with that size, um, you've mentioned a number of advantages, and apart from the income from the practice, are there any other disadvantages or trade-offs that come with keeping the practice that small?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 15:27

Well, as far as the disadvantages, um, you know, I I think um number one, you and I don't know, it's not a disadvantage to me, but um you're keeping it small. There's a lot of people who want and or need to see you, uh, and and they can't. Um but um if I were to say, are there any other disadvantages the way I'm practicing? It's if if I truly want to maximize my income, what I would do is everybody gets charged a concierge fee. And instead of putting my limit at 50 or 75 patients, you bring in someone else like uh a nurse practitioner or PA, and now you go up to 100, 125. Um, so there are ways to do what I'm doing and make it more profitable. Um, I'm a little bit of a control freak, so I'd want to look over the PA or nurse practitioners. I'd end up redoing everything. But um, yeah, I mean, I have to say, with what I'm doing, do I perceive personally any disadvantages? No, I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

Dr Andrew Greenland 16:43

Amazing.

Boundaries, Burnout, And Patient Access

Dr Andrew Greenland 16:44

And are there any challenges around your own time? Because I guess everything comes back to you. If you're the sole driver of this and all of your patients are your own, does that not have a sort of consequence on you and your time?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 16:55

It it certainly does. Um, there's no question about it. It's it's not great for families, hence I'm getting divorced. Um uh and um yeah, it's like your time, and and to be honest, the more I give, the more patients expect. So, way too many of my patients have my cell phone, and and they'll just have a thought, they'll be in a store, they want to buy a supplement, and they're like, hmm, I'll just text Dr. Rosenberg. What do you think about this supplement? What do you think about so that is a disadvantage, is that you do have to set boundaries. And I'm gonna be completely honest, I'm not good at setting boundaries.

Dr Andrew Greenland 17:39

So, what does your working week look like at the moment? You do lots of different things. How does it all factor in?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 17:46

So, um, what I do, uh, I mean, um it what's interesting is um only about 20% of my income comes from my practice. Yet that's where 95% of my time goes. Um, so you know, I get up, you know, 5 45 in the morning and take care of the dogs and take care of the kids, and and uh and I'm in the office by seven in the morning preparing for the day. And then, you know, I start seeing my first patient either 8:30 or 9. And throughout the day, you know, labs are coming in, emails, and so what I do though is I work nonstop. I don't eat, um, I don't eat, and uh so you know I start work at seven in the morning and I typically will finish with patients around three o'clock. Uh, but it's nonstop from 7 a.m. to three. And um I do make time for lots of coffee, of course, um, but that doesn't interfere with seeing patients, and um, and then I have to do paperwork, and so I'm pretty much done with the office by 4:30. Then I come home and deal with everything in the house and the kids, but as you can imagine, it the emails keep coming, the calls keep coming, so it's kind of scattered throughout the night. Now, in addition, um, I have to find the time. Um, like I'm also, I I think I yeah, I said I'm the um the I'm a KOL for the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, and I have to Fridays, Saturday, and Sundays, I have to create content, I have to to do things. In addition, for example, next Thursday, I'm presenting um my um, I'm trying to raise 1.5 million for the a dog study. We're gonna take dogs with hemangiosarcoma, which is one of the most aggressive cancers. The median survival once they're diagnosed is typically two to three months. So we hopefully can show by eliminating their tumor clusters that we can significantly extend health span and lifespan. So I spent I spend time on that. And uh next Thursday uh we're presenting to another uh entity to hopefully um you know make some money, uh I mean, make some money, get some money for the dog study.

Writing Curing Death And Studying Mortality

Dr Mark Rosenberg 20:17

Um, in addition, uh I I like to write and um on Saturdays and Sundays, so I don't know if I shared with this this with you, but I wrote a book called Curing Death, a science fiction novel. Did I tell you that? So it's although it's science fiction, it's um it's somewhat autobiographical. So when I say that, so Mike Royce, Mark Rosenberg, Mike Royce is an emergency physician who works in a trauma center. And he's kind of cocky, he's you know, he's very muscular, good looking, and uh he's in his 30s and very quick thinking, and he's he's the man. But as you know, in a trauma center, you lose a lot of people, a lot of people die, and um so he watches, he looks at the eyes and in people that die, and and he he feels sad, and he's like, You I have to figure this out because he's lost, and and by the way, in the book, there are all these emergency medicine cases, um, and they're all true. They're all my cases. Of course, the names have been changed, uh, but some of them are horrific. Um, some of them will make you cry, some will make you laugh, and it's it's it's all true. So, what he does is he asks the hospital, he said, I want to do a study on uh terminally ill patients, and he gets permission from the administration to do physician assisted suicide. And so his what he says, he gets a team together and they're gonna bring people into the hospital in a ward, they're gonna stay uh for months. Month before they actually push the lethal cocktail. And he's going to study them. He's going to do frequent CT scans, PET scans, MRIs, lots of labs. And his goal is to find a commonality on everybody who's soon to die. And if he can find that commonality, can he intervene and stop death? So what he ends up finding is he's like the day before and the day of uh that he's going to push the lethal cocktail. He he does a pet scan, he's doing a PET scan, he's looking, and he notices that 60 minutes, it's always 60 minutes before they're scheduled to have the lethal cocktail. There's an area uh in the temporal parietal occipital region that lights up every time, and then five minutes later, it's gone. And then, of course, they push the and it's always 60 minutes it shows up, and then it's gone in five minutes. And he said, What is that? Why is that area lighting up always 60 minutes before we push the leaf of cocktail? And he said, It's an energy. I don't know if it's the soul, I don't know what it is. And so what he ends up doing is playing with magnets. Um, of course, we are all uh electrical, electromagnetic uh uh beings, and he puts them uh like a uh an MRI magnet, but the MRI goes to three Tesla, and he turns on the magnet and nothing happens. The the that hot spot leaves and he turns it higher and higher, and he can finally he gets an engineer, he turns it up to 45 Tesla, and all of a sudden, that hotspot that starts to go it starts shuttering and it stops dead, and he's holding it there as long as the magnet's on, and he pushes the lethal cocktail and they don't die. So, everybody that has the magnet on that holds that energy, it doesn't matter what you push, they don't die. So that was an amazing discovery, and that's all I want to tell you because it gets crazy from there. So there's a lot of science in there, and all my thoughts really. Um, and right now, of course, it's science fiction. Who knows uh if it'll always be science fiction, but it's a wild, wild ride, and I had an amazing time writing it. And and interestingly, I relived many of these horrific experiences um watching people die. And uh yeah, it was uh it was an interesting time writing this.

Dr Andrew Greenland 24:41

Fascinating. What was what was the inspiration for writing the book? Was it just this lifelong career of all the things that you'd seen that you wanted to kind of document and write as cases? What was the inspiration for putting that down and putting the science fiction element into it?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 24:54

The the I think the inspiration was, you know, I've been when I was a child, I mean, I was I was interested in aging. Um, you may remember the first life extension book that came out by Dirk Pearson and Sandy Shaw in the 70s, I think. And I read it, uh, you know, as a teenager. And I've always been fascinated with death and why do we die and what happens when we die, and can we stop it? And um, and I think it it was kind of uh um the coming together of um all my my horrific cases in emergency medicine and sadness uh combined with my my interest um to figure this out. And um, and and I will tell you, I when I was a kid, like I used to I wrote short stories, and I realized uh I have a or I think I have a gift to write science fiction short stories. So I'm like, you know, I I had never written anything before, and I just did it, and uh, and it's my baby. I it was fun, it was a lot of fun.

Dr Andrew Greenland 26:04

Thank you. So you do lots of things. You've obviously got your clinical practice, your counselor work, longevity medicine, your A4 involvement, um, executive responsibilities. What are the biggest time drains in the things that you do at the moment?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 26:20

There's no question. The biggest time drains are my patients. Um, that is, yeah, I mean, that occupies most of my time. Um and and I apologize. Um after that, um, I would say what I do is I try to spend three to four hours at the end of every night reading the literature, searching the literature, and and it's much easier now. You know, I I have to take that back. Now it's probably two hours. AI has been a great help. And um, but I I spend at least a couple of hours every night uh trying to stay on top of everything. You know, you know, I I tell patients I want to be the AI myself. Um, there's really no need to now because it's right, it's very uh it's available, but that takes a lot of my time. And then, you know, there's there's there's another project that I was asked to be chief medical officer for a new telehealth longevity platform, and I have to write all the protocols. So yeah, I mean honestly, I mean I could make a career out of each one of my projects.

Dr Andrew Greenland 27:33

So if I gave you a magic wand and we could free up that time drain, what would your kind of working week look like? How would it be different?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 27:42

So I I will tell you that I would I would like to work less in the office seeing patients. Um and so if you waved a magic wand, you would find someone that is my clone or similar or has a similar fund of knowledge and say, take it over, and every once in a while will bring me in to you know consult. But that would be a huge um lift um uh of my burden if you can create a clone for me.

Dr Andrew Greenland 28:19

Thank you. Um when we booked our original um conversation, I did ask you what your biggest operational challenge was in your practice. Um what what what is that? Because I don't think we ever got to it, or perhaps you've already covered it already.

Dr Mark Rosenberg 28:32

The biggest operational challenge is um uh and and again it's it's about me setting boundaries. Um people the the patients expect so much from me, and and they often don't so I charge cash for each visit, and what they'll often do is they'll bypass the receptionist and just call me and basically try to get a phone consult um and bypassing the visit. So that has been a big challenge, and and it's you know, I'm the one who set the tone. Uh, but I am now I've spoken with my staff and I said, every time you speak to a patient, let them know don't call my cell phone unless it's an emergency. Everything has to come through them. And so, but that's been my biggest operational challenge, and it's because of my own my own fault.

Dr Andrew Greenland 29:28

Thank you, thank you, and thank you for your honesty. Well um, so that brings us to another fascinating part of your career. So I know you've

Why Great Cancer Ideas Don’t Reach Patients

Dr Andrew Greenland 29:34

been involved not only in treating cancer, but also trying to develop entirely new approaches to it. Um, you previously worked on cancer stem cell drug that reached animal studies but didn't quite get to progress to clinical trials. So, what did that experience teach you about the difference between a promising medical idea and actually getting that idea into the hands of patients?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 29:52

Yeah, so that's what um any um if you're a cancer researcher, cancer scientist, unless you're working for big pharma university, you're really aware of there are, I think we all know, there are many promising modalities, medicines, uh supplements that really repurpose drugs that potentially could make a difference in um in cancer treatment. And when I say make a difference, again, I'm not talking about a cure, but I'm talking about improving quality of life and potentially quantity of life. But if there's no valuable intellectual property on it, so these these substances will simply not be studied. And um, and that's that's very disappointing. Now, in addition, there are drugs where there is there is IP on it, but it's um uh obviously there's so much bureaucracy um in many governments and certainly the United States, and it's very expensive. So, what I did is um uh I brought a drug to Harvard because we have no drug to target cancer stem cells. And um we actually uh met with a uh a group out of Harvard called that started a company called nanoproteogen, and they make novel uh nanoparticles. So they took the drug that I brought to them and they put it in a nanoparticle, and to that nanoparticle, because of the leakiness or enhanced permeability of the vascular wall in cancer in the cancer cell specifically, my drug would go right there. So we did mouse studies. We we did ovarian cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, non-small cell lung cancer, triple negative breast cancer. We did all the tough cancers, and the results were remarkable. Um, and uh so then we, you know, the next step is raising money, uh, presenting this data, um raising money for a human tribe. And that did not go well, and the company basically got run into the ground financially and gone, it's gone. Um, now I I do there's a new CEO who's a good friend of mine. He's very busy, but you know, potentially we can resurrect this. But you know, I'm sure you're aware that most new drugs that are developed will never see the light of day, a very small percentage. But um, you know, I I know that um there are many modalities and and and substances out there that could help. As a matter of fact, um, so I was speaking with the assistants to uh RFK, um and um and the discussion I had with them is that the government needs to step up when when big pharma can't benefit from it, even if the substance is very interesting, uh, who's gonna fund the study? And I said that's where the government needs to step up. And and I gave them a very simple example. We've been using maximum tolerated dose chemotherapy forever, and uh it's based on faulty preclinical data. I have a whole PowerPoint on this, but every oncologist knows you need to use the highest amount so that the patient can stand, so you kill most tumor cells. The problem with that is you also kill the immune system. Um, and and you as you really kill a lot of cancer cells, you very quickly um uh cause natural selection and you select out for the most resistant cells and you lose the game. And so what I did is I pulled data to some very interesting publications where they looked at low dose chemotherapy, high dose chemotherapy, and then medium dose. And they found in this publication that medium dose was the most effective. Low dose kept the immune system intact, but it didn't kill enough tumor cells. High dose did a great job killing tumor cells, but it killed the immune system. And the medium dose seemed to do the best of both. And and so I spoke to the assistant to RFK and I said, the government mean, I said we have all these small trials using medium dose with good results. But what any oncologist would say is until there is a large randomized clinical trial using medium dose against high dose, there's no way we're gonna change. And of course, my answer is, and that will never happen unless the government steps up. I don't know that that's gonna happen.

Canine Cancer Study And The Business Case

Dr Andrew Greenland 35:01

Wow, okay, and you I know you've got a uh thing that you're working on at the moment with the canine study, you're presenting at a meeting shortly. What's the next step after that to get that project moving forward?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 35:12

So, you know, if we get, you know, we need 1.5 million. Um, and you know, that's small money when you're talking about raising money for a big pharma. But here's the exciting thing uh for our listeners out there who may be interested. So remember, I said with Himangosarcoma that the dogs that we're going to be studying, so we're not hurting these dogs, we're we're trying to help dying dogs. And the because the median survival is about two to three months from diagnosis, if we at six months all the dogs are alive and thriving, we actually immediately have a veterinary modality because the FDA, the US FDA, does not get involved in veterinary medicine, and so we can immediately start getting revenue by selling this to veterinary oncologists around the country, and that could help fund a human trial. And so it's actually a big business for both uh and you know, people around the world love their pets and will do anything for their dying pets. And so it's a big business for both veterinary medicine and oncology, and that 1.5 million really could, you know, that could launch us, you know. Right now we're we're um we're valuing our company arbitrarily uh at $3 million. But if during the dog study at six months, the dogs are all alive and thriving, we've just doubled the survival. And uh immediately when we apply for a human trial, uh we will publish that and the valuation of the company, I don't know, 500 million, a billion. Um, because this would be, I mean, there's nobody's developed anything for homangiosarcoma to extend survival. And if we can at least double survival and quality of life, that's a home run.

Dr Andrew Greenland 37:18

Fascinating.

Science, Suffering, And A Conversation With God

Dr Andrew Greenland 37:19

But Mark, you know, you're 66 now. You described yourself as someone who genuinely walks the talk when it comes to longevity. I guess you're not retiring anytime soon. So, what's what's next for you? What are your plans for the future professionally?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 37:31

Well, I I think for the future, here's what I want to do. I want to continue research. Uh, I want to write nonfiction and fiction, and I see myself um being becoming a public figure, not politically, but a public figure in science and medicine and wellness. Um, and um, so I see myself, you know, on stage, I see myself on uh on podcasts like this. Um, and I think that's really that's my future. Um, I don't know if I uh, well, you tell me if you want me to go down that road. I told you I did I tell you I just recently wrote a book that I I I am uh discussing with uh literary agents, and it's called A Doctor's Conversation with God. Did I tell you that?

Dr Andrew Greenland 38:23

No, please do expand. Please do expand.

Dr Mark Rosenberg 38:25

Okay, all right. So um I started life as a teenager as an atheist. Um, like many scientists, uh I was an atheist, and I actually talked with my parents and said, you know, no offense, mom and dad, you're not educated and you believe in God, and that's great. Um, but science doesn't support that, and it's really for uneducated people. Eventually, with everything that I've seen, uh I became an agnostic. And then with everything I've seen, everything I've read, you know, most of the the books on near-death experiences. Uh I've read the book, uh, many of the books on um you may be familiar with children between the ages of two and five that have complete recall of a prior lifetime. And so I've read all this, and uh, and then um I've re-looked at the complexity of this universe. It's so perfect. I mean, if our if if our moon was tilted, you know, less than one degree one way, life would not exist. It's it's so incredibly perfect. And while I was uh I've been going through this very traumatic divorce, which had a great effect on me, and and I got deep into depression, I got on AI and I asked it some questions. I said, Would you agree that every organism is composed of DNA, RNA, or the combination? And it said yes. And I said, Would you agree that that is a unique code or program to every organism? And it said yes. And then I said, Can you name one program that does not have a programmer? And of course, it said, I see where you're going, and that's why even a lot of quantum physicists are now saying there is an organizing force, not only an organizing force that set it up, but is maintaining. And so what I said in this book is faith did not bring me to the belief in God, science did. And so, what I started doing is talking to uh, and by the way, I I I need to. Are you familiar with a three-book series written by Neil Donald Walsh in the 90s called Conversations with God? Are you familiar with that? I'm not, no, I'm not. So it was a three-book series, and it was about a man who is very his life was tough, you know. I think he was losing his job, he's getting divorced, life was just a bummer. And he he started talking to God and getting answers and wrote it down. And it became it was on the New York Times bestseller list for two and a half years. It's been translated into almost every language, it's all over the place. So I started talking, and and I say right in the preface in my book, I don't know if I'm talking to Mark, a higher version of Mark or God. All I know is I'm getting wise answers. And I started asking all these questions like, God, if if you're here, when did you get here? How did you get here? Um, if you're this benevolent God, how do you let um five-year-old children die of leukemia? How do you let um terrible people like Hitler kill six million people? Um, is there a soul? If there's the soul, what happens when it I ask all these questions and I ask personal, and I said, God, what's the answer to cancer? Um, and I and I got all these answers, and I sent this to many of my patients, and it's made a great impact on their life. And and again, I don't know if this is just you know a higher version of Mark answering, but the the answers are profound, and um it's helped shape my life, and uh, you know, one of the things I've learned is that uh the our purpose for being here is to give and to love. That's why we're here, to give and to love. And my own conversation has helped me become the person I want to become, and uh, so yeah, I hope a doctor's conversation with God gets out there. And I see myself, you know, I'm the science guy, but I see myself talking about this because um, you know, I I absolutely believe that there is a collective consciousness and the universe is conscious, the entire universe. So, anyway, I know that's completely different than everything else I've done.

Dr Andrew Greenland 43:02

Fascinating.

If He Started Again Tomorrow

Dr Andrew Greenland 43:03

I mean, such a breath to your career and your interests. Thank you. Um, so look, you've got decades of experience across emergency medicine, longevity, oncology, leadership, uh, research, entrepreneurship. If you were starting over again tomorrow, would you do anything differently with everything that you now know?

Dr Mark Rosenberg 43:19

You know, I I think um, yeah, I didn't know the direction medicine was going to be heading in, and I would, and I thought about this. I would have gone right into research um uh from the beginning because that really fires me up. That really intrigues me. But I am also aware that, you know, like if I got hired by a pharmaceutical company, I mean, I'm following orders, right? I mean, they'll give me a certain amount of leeway. But honestly, I I think I would have uh just gone right to you know research, just get a PhD, and uh instead of doing clinical medicine.

Dr Andrew Greenland 44:01

And with

Closing Thoughts On Real Growth

Dr Andrew Greenland 44:02

that, Mark, I'd have to thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a really fascinating conversation you've shared so honestly um about your entire career and the various things that have shaped it. I think what's particularly interesting about your story is that you've never really followed the conventional definition of growth. You've deliberately kept your clinical practice relatively small while creating room for oncology and longevity medicine and research and innovation and other ventures. And perhaps that's the bigger lesson here. You know, growth doesn't necessarily mean more patients, more employees, more locations. Sometimes it's just about creating enough freedom to spend your time solving the problems you believe are worth solving. And so, with that, I'd love to thank you so much for joining us and uh for such a enriching conversation.

Dr Mark Rosenberg 44:38

Oh, thank you, Andrew. I appreciate you having me.